Buck rotation

Discussion in 'Bucks' started by NDinKY, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    I was wondering how you guys figure out your buck rotations for breeding. We currently have 3 bucks and two bucklings (one is up for sale). All of them come from strong milking lines. We have 7 does we plan to breed this fall and 5 doelings who will be bred when they are mature enough, likely for fall babies next year.

    Do you guys use one buck on all the does then sell him on to bring fresh genetics in each year? Do you use different bucks for various does to try and improve weaknesses, then keep progeny to see how they grow up?

    Buck space isn’t a problem for us as we keep our bucks with our horse so for hay they can share a round bale once the browse is gone. None of our bucks are related, so they bring different genetics. I do plan on shaving them this spring so I can get a better hold on their conformational strengths and weaknesses.
     
  2. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Either is fine. You need to decide what works best for your farm. You always want to improve your herd.
     

  3. Chelsey

    Chelsey Well-Known Member

    276
    Dec 6, 2018
    I, so far, keep one buck and sell him the next year, but I only have five does. The breeders I’ve worked with have lots of does and several bucks and breed based off who would improve what. It seems like they always sell off one or two a year and bring in new bucks. The best kids are sold to fellow breeders (instead of sold as pets) and the best of the best are kept to be bred. Repeat breedings happen often when a pair make a really quality goat for show or milking.
     
  4. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    When I had bucks, I always had more than one.

    My plan for this last one, when I was down to one buck, was to use him on the does for 2 years, and on the doelings for 2 years starting next year, and then replace him. Not to use him on his daughters.
     
  5. Morning Star Farm

    Morning Star Farm Well-Known Member

    375
    Sep 26, 2018
    My general rule was, if you have a good buck, keep him until he can't improve anything anymore. What I mean by that is, if you start out with an exceptional buckling, he will improve your does for awhile, but eventually, if all goes as planned, the quality of your does will surpass the buck. But if that never happens and you have a wonderful buck and room for him, I would keep him forever! Lol. I usually had around 3-4 bucks. I would breed each of my new bucks to a couple does their first year, then sell them if I didn't like the kids. Most times I didn't, so then I would bring in another buck. When I got a really good one, he stayed until he died. So that's how I managed my buck pen and never had to worry about them being too closely related. But I never sold a buck who still had something to add to my herd and I'm happy to say that I just realized I never regretted selling a goat for conformation reasons.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  6. IHEARTGOATS

    IHEARTGOATS Well-Known Member

    Jun 14, 2016
    Zebulon, NC
    This is what we do. We have 6 bucks of our own and we leased a buck from a friend this year to breed specific does. We are also going to AI a couple of does with 2 bucks we have purchased semen from. We will most likely hold on to a buck kid from the AI breedings.
     
  7. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    Thanks everyone, I like the idea of keeping a buck until he can no longer improve the herd. With the exception of two does, my bucks are way nicer than the doe herd from what I know about conformation.

    I’m excited to see what the different pairings produce. The buck we’ve had the longest throws beautiful kids with lots of color, but now that we’re starting to milk and have a better idea of what we’re doing color doesn’t really matter much. I haven’t kept any of his kids as we have sold most of our unregistered goats so I’m not sure the kinds of udders he throws. Our other boys are all new within the past year, so it will be a while before I can assess their progeny.
     
  8. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    Short answer, I use them as long as I can. When I first started I had the idea that I would have a buck or two, how ever many as long as it was roughly the 1 buck per 25 does. Now? I have learned good bucks are NOT cheap and I want the longest bang for my buck (lol) I can get! So I have gone from the person that thought everyone was nuts with their small buck to doe ratio to having a whole herd of bucks. Although I still cringe at myself when I figure out how many does per buck I have lol also it never fails when you NEED a buck there is just so so ones for sale so I would rather keep hanging onto my good one and casually shop not sit there and say ok I NEED to buy a buck this year and have to settle.
     
  9. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I usually have 2 bucks all the time.
    I pick out does and match them to whatever buck would best suit conformation and to try to better the herd that way.

    I sometimes raise a buckling out of one of the bucks and breed to 1 or 2 does before selling him. Or may even keep him for the next years breeding.

    Only breed your best bucks to the does. A buck makes your herd, a buck is not just a buck. ;)
     
  10. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    I try to keep a good buck kid out of an older good buck (from a good doe not related to others, if possible) to replace the old guy, if he should die or become less fertile.

    I wish I would have done that with 2 nice bucks, a saanen from an AI pairing (1989 semen) and a beautiful Lamancha buck. One died of pneumonia and the other I found dead. Neither had buck kids that year that I had retained. (2 different years, pneumonia was under vet care.)

    But, now I have 11 full size, full rut adult bucks and 3 baby boys. It is getting pretty odiferous for those not used to the fine perfumed scent of full rut! :omg::ahh:(doh) (Yep, I guess I might be a little goofy! Just ask DH!). :heehee:
     
  11. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    Until either a place closer to where I live opens up to collect semen on bucks I’m going to start doing this as well. Last year I lost one buck in the middle of my breeding season and another shortly after. The one i was going to move him along since I kept so many kids from him but the other I only got 1 1/2 breeding out of him and the first year I needed money more then I needed more goats so only kept one doe. The goat gods were looking out for me and I did get a nice little buck kid my last kidding but if i has lost him after I sold off all his kids the first year it would have screwed me even worse. So next kidding I’m going to take my time picking a buck kid out of each buck and hold onto until their sires settle their does.
     
  12. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    I wish I could do AI. I would love to take a class and learn, then I could collect all the Bucks and only have a couple clean up boys. I know AI is only 40-70% but I am sure, with knowledge and practice, they rate should increase. Right?

    I sure would rather recharge a tank then feed and house a herd of pain in the neck bucks! (And DH would be happier too, he is NOT a goat person!)
     
  13. IHEARTGOATS

    IHEARTGOATS Well-Known Member

    Jun 14, 2016
    Zebulon, NC
    BioGenetics is making 6 stops in California in December


    http://www.biogenicsltd.com/tour/ca.html
     
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  14. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    Oh thank you IHEATGOATS! One of those stops is only a hour from me! It will be in the middle of my kidding but I’m going to call and see if they will let me bring at least the older buck and then see if I can get someone to be on kid watch!
    Goats rock I bet you you could figure it out on your own. I do not regret taking the class I did and I would do it again but really it just gave me more confidence to do it. On the whole actual place semen in a doe part, it was exactly the same as everything that I found when googling how to AI before they even thought of putting on the class. It did cover a lot of other things, this body part is called this and it does that, which I really didn’t fully care about to be honest lol But I think you are right that practice is key in the end. There’s on lady that lives in California and she travels all over the state and Oregon staying busy AIing for people. It’s not that she is the only one who knows how to do it, it’s that she has a amazing success rate. And it has to be HER. She’s dealing with different stock and semen and farms and everyone is thrilled with her.
     
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  15. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    It just depends on your goals, and genetics, and with your buck count, is it necessary to have so many keeper bucks meaning will they earn their keep? It's totally your call. We have 12 does, 9 of breeding age and 2 yearling bucks (all Boer). The bucks are twins that just turned a year old and we don't need both, but darn it... we can't decide who we'd sell, both are very nice. They are buddies, so thankfully there's no need for us to make any decisions yet. We have at least 3 does we'll breed later in the year, and have some friends wanting to send some does to them so they still have a job through the end of the year. Ideally we keep one and try to bring in a new buck and see if they'd buddy up as these guys would hopefully be shown next year.
     
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  16. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    I like the idea of keeping a buckling out of the best buck as the buck gets older. The oldest buck I have is not quite 3 so hopefully they have a while.

    My husband is interested in AI as that would be a great way to bring in top genetics. I hesitate with the costs per straw when we don’t know what we’re doing.

    Jessica84, where did you find a class on AI? I’m not sure if our vet does it, and if he does I’m sure he’d charge an arm and a leg.

    As far as earning their keep, with our setup the only expenses for the bucks are BoSe, minerals, CDT, and copper boluses. In the winter they’ll share a round bale with my horse, so hay cost isn’t really affected by 2 bucks vs 4. 11 full rut bucks would be another story! I’m sure they smell fantastic. My 3 full size bucks can be smelled from a long ways away.
     
  17. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    If I am in the buck pen and just stand there a minute, my clothes smell fantastic (to a doe in heat!) at the grocery store, I get weird looks and no one comes near me! (I did that last week, in a hurry and didn't think about my "perfume"!). (rofl):oops2:
     
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  18. IHEARTGOATS

    IHEARTGOATS Well-Known Member

    Jun 14, 2016
    Zebulon, NC
    This is a very good video

     
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  19. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    The one I took was just a one time deal. I don’t think she has put any one since then. But she was someone who majored in animal reproduction (something like that) and worked for a place that collected semen and also AIed. But I think I just saw a post in Oklahoma for a class, I’ll see if I can find that again. There’s another one that is put on every year I think in north or South Dakota and that’s supposed to be a really good one. But it really goes into depth on everything. I think they even dissect all of a does reproductive parts. They also cover LAP AI but I think that would be a waste of time unless one has a vet that would just hand over meds to be able to do it.
    But for the basic how to the video IHEARTGOATS just posted is good. The mucus to me looks a little early but I can’t say I’m a pro at it so what do I know lol
    The issue with using a vet is timing is the most important thing. It’s better if it was done off the does time not a vets time. Also usually when you use someone to do it for you like a vet, you try and time the heat just right so they will be ready on say Thursday at 4pm and everyone swears they have better luck with a natural heat then a forced one.
    But I hear ya on the price or semen. I was still a little hesitant even after the class but I stopped looking at it as a loss when it fails and started looking at it as a cost for education. That doesn’t mean I went out and bought $500 semen and say ehh it’s for education lol but I figure it will sting less knowing it wasn’t just flushing money down the toilet but just a cost of learning.
     
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  20. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    Thanks for the video!

    I like looking at it as an education. And yeah, doing things on vet time is spendy and probably not as good as when she is naturally ready.
     
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