Buckling can't stand ~ HELP PLEASE ~ Tube feeding?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Skyz84, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. Skyz84

    Skyz84 Member

    529
    Jul 25, 2011
    San Antonio, Texas
    Re: Buckling can't stand, hardly has a suck reflex

    Both kids are temp in the 101 range.

    Doeling is up and running. Looks like she got a meal in her! I moved her and mom into a small outside pen so I could clean the kidding stall really good. She was trying to play with her mom. Pretending to head butt her. I brought the little boy inside to feed him and when I went back out mom had busted out of the pen... Her and baby made it across the yard! (I put them back into the kidding stall) Doeling is passing yellow poo and peeing.

    I gave up on using the bottle for the little boy. Using a syringe now. I've got him sitting up again. Giving him whatever he will take every 30-40 minutes. He is taking about 10-12 ccs at a time... maybe a little more.. but he dribbles some out so I'm underestimating there. He is pooping. It's not bright yellow like his sisters... between brown and yellow. Still sticky.

    Neither of the livestock vets I've talked to would give me BoSe. They wont give me anything unless I bring a goat in and it is needed at the time. I did get Selenium/Vit E gel down him.

    One of his eyes rolls back weird a lot. It doesn't do it all the time. Just sometimes. This is also the same side he fall over to. He is trying to stand but he always falls to this side. Here is what the eye does.. sometimes it rolls farther back then this.. It can also look normal too:
    [​IMG]

    This is his other eye. Never seen it roll outta place:
    [​IMG]

    Here is how his ears are folded funny. He can move the one that is folded the worst but it always goes back to this position:
    [​IMG]

    Here he is after 3 feedings. He is sitting up on his own:
    [​IMG]

    He doesn't seem to be having any trouble breathing. I worked really hard to get all the goo out of his mouth and lungs when he was born but I wonder if I got it all? His mouth and throat were full of clear, thick goo and he couldn't take a breath for at least a minute after he was born. He was born about 10 minutes after his mom laid down to start pushing. He was born only seconds after his sister in a normal position. His sister practically hit the ground running but this little guy has always fallen to one side and has been weak from the start.
     
  2. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Re: Buckling can't stand, hardly has a suck reflex *PIC ADDE

    Really cute... :greengrin:

    Temp is normal that is good...

    Glad the Doeling is doing well..... poo sounds normal and glad she pee'd :thumb:


    The buckling isn't getting enough to eat.... if it is 12cc every 30 to 40 minutes....

    Sorry you couldn't get any Bo-se from the vet but glad you did get Selenium/Vit E gel in him.

    Wow.. the eye thing is a new one to me.... Something does seem off about it ...almost like his equilibrium is off when he falls and the eye position might make him confused.... he may be seeing double or something different... It is strange that it is on and off...... If he didn't have oxygen.... when he was born for a long period of time... he may have some brain damage.... :(

    If you do not hear any raspy sounds or trouble breathing now....then... the kid should be OK there...
     

  3. Skyz84

    Skyz84 Member

    529
    Jul 25, 2011
    San Antonio, Texas
    Re: Buckling can't stand, hardly has a suck reflex *PIC ADDE

    Well he seems a little stronger!!!

    He is not .... floppy? That's about the only word I can think of.

    He can get his hind legs under him and up to his front knees all on his own! If I stand him up he can stay standing unassisted. Before he just kept falling over. He has managed a few steps here and there but nothing really coordinated.

    He also started to suck on the bottle a little tonight! :clap: Not a "lot" but he was actually sucking!!!

    I'm still not 100% sure how much he is actually swallowing. I was giving him 25-35 cc's of milk but a lot drooled out so I was guessing he only swallowed about 1/2 of what I gave him.

    Looks like he will be a bottle baby if he makes it. He has been in my lap most of the day.

    He managed to poo and it looked just like his sisters.... yellow/clumpy! SO I imagine he is getting something down!

    I have a weak kid syringe... I'm just scared to tube feed him. I've never done it before. :? If he doesn't continue to improve I'll be back on asking HOW to tube feed him.

    As for lack of oxygen.. I am a little worried. I wasn't really watching a clock. He came out only seconds behind his sister who was bleeding very badly from her umbilical. I had to make a choice on which was more sever. When his sister came out I wiped her nose, ran a finger through her mouth and she was breathing. When he came out I did the same thing. Then I went back to his sister to get the dental floss (that was already on my finger) on his sisters umbilical. (it only took a few seconds of fumbling around but her belly was already covered in blood) Then I looked back up and it was clear he couldn't breath. I spent maybe 30 seconds to a minute trying to clear his airway.... I would guess he didn't get O2 for a minute.... 90 seconds at most. It happened so fast. He never turned blue.
     
  4. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Re: Buckling can't stand, hardly has a suck reflex *PIC ADDE

    I'm thinking perhaps the fact that he has a slight parrot mouth could be making his sucking worse? Or rather, his lack of it ?

    i had a doeling with a parrot mouth a couple of years ago...

    LW
     
  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Re: Buckling can't stand, hardly has a suck reflex *PIC ADDE

    Praying for the cute baby..... :hug: :pray:
     
  6. milkmaid

    milkmaid I'm not addicted - I'm in love!

    Re: Buckling can't stand, hardly has a suck reflex *PIC ADDE

    You mentioned his funny shaped head...is it possible that he is polled? Almost looks like it to me. My new little doeling is polled and her head looks a lot like that. If you look at her head-on she looks just like a little llama!
     
  7. Skyz84

    Skyz84 Member

    529
    Jul 25, 2011
    San Antonio, Texas
    Re: Buckling can't stand, hardly has a suck reflex *PIC ADDE

    Funny you mentioned that because I was thinking the same thing. As far as I understand he can not be polled. Both his sire and dam had horns. I'm certain! But he does look just like the polled kids I have seen! He was born with 2 very distinct bumps on his head too. I was surprised how distinct they are. His face just doesn't look like a ND for some reason. :scratch:

    As for how he is doing... he doesn't seem any worse. That's about all I can say. He still can't get his feet under him. He can get his back legs under him but gets stuck on is knees.

    How much should he be eating? I've been getting at least a shot glass full of milk down him about every 2 hours.
    All he really does is sleep :( I wake him up to feed him and I try to spend 10 minutes getting him up on his feet and getting his balance. I was really hoping to see an improvement today. :? He is drinking, peeing and pooping and sleeping.
     
  8. Skyz84

    Skyz84 Member

    529
    Jul 25, 2011
    San Antonio, Texas
    Buckling can't stand ~ HELP PLEASE

    Help please! Our little buckling just went limp! :( :( :(

    I've been feeding him around the clock every 2 hours. He has been drinking about 1 oz at a time today. He is 48 hours old.

    He is breathing but just limp.

    This afternoon I think he might have inhaled a little milk from the bottle? He sounded raspy for a bit but I don't hear it anymore.

    His temp was 100.8.

    Should I give him a B Vit injection? Antibiotics? Is there ANYTHING I can do? Tube feed him:? He was due to eat 20 minutes ago but I just can't get him to suck or anything :sigh:
     
  9. Skyz84

    Skyz84 Member

    529
    Jul 25, 2011
    San Antonio, Texas
    Re: Buckling can't stand ~ HELP PLEASE

    Well his temp is up to 101.6. I got him responding again. Just seems suddenly weaker. Syringed 1 oz of milk down him. Gave him more molasses and the high calorie drench. Left a message with a vet but I don't expect a call this late... guess I'll see. His lungs are rattling. Not all the time. Should I start him on penicillin? If so, how much? He weights 4lbs. He is actually gaining weight about equal to his sister... He just can't walk. =/
     
  10. ettasmama

    ettasmama New Member

    88
    Jun 27, 2010
    Nebraska
    Re: Buckling can't stand ~ HELP PLEASE

    I would try som cayenne on his gums. It will get his circulation going if he is in a bit of shock.
     
  11. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Re: Buckling can't stand ~ HELP PLEASE

    Keep him in a warm area.... his temp went back to normal that is good....
    Pick him up and Feel his tummy... does it feel full or empty? If it is empty.. he is not getting enough.....

    I don't like that his lungs are rattling at all...not a good sign....he doesn't have a fever but... it won't hurt... to put him on Pen....to be safe.... if the vet doesn't get back to you soon.... Stacey recommends for respiratory... 1cc per 10lbs twice a day .. for 5 to 7 days..
    if he weighs 4lbs I'd say.. 1/2 a cc
    viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25194&p=299880&hilit=Pen+dosage#p299880

    Hope the vets calls you soon... :hug:

    Giving molasses and the high calorie drench...was good...if you have goat nutra drench... that is packed with vitamins... helps with appetite...gives energy...

    You can give him Fortified vit B complex ...that will help stimulate appetite....

    Can't walk... isn't good... he needs to walk in order to keep his lungs healthy..... :(
     
  12. Skyz84

    Skyz84 Member

    529
    Jul 25, 2011
    San Antonio, Texas
    Re: Buckling can't stand ~ HELP PLEASE

    Can I give the Pen Sub Q or does it have to be a in a muscle? I'm not sure I can FIND a muscle on him!
     
  13. Skyz84

    Skyz84 Member

    529
    Jul 25, 2011
    San Antonio, Texas
    Re: Buckling can't stand ~ HELP PLEASE

    How much B Complex? Sorry for all the questions! I've worked so hard on this little guy... =(

    Oh and Tummy feels full... pooped several times today too. Actually his sister is a little thinner then he is... and she is up and running outside with her mom...
     
  14. Skyz84

    Skyz84 Member

    529
    Jul 25, 2011
    San Antonio, Texas
    Re: Buckling can't stand, hardly has a suck reflex *PIC ADDE

    Milkmaid, I just thought I would attach this photo... the hair on his head stands straight up and doesn't have the little "swirls" like his sister does.
    [​IMG]

    And here is his sister:
    [​IMG]

    It's irrelevant to his current condition but I thought I would post the picture. His odd features have me wondering what's going on... I just think something else is "not right". I don't think this little guy is gonna pull through the night. If he does I'm trying to find someone to take him to the vet in the morning... I'm scared to leave my pregnant doe. She is going to be 156 days tomorrow and all the goat vets are around 2 hours away.. .No way I'm leaving her for 4-6 hours to take this little guy to a vet... I want him to make it but my pregnant doe is more important to me. :sigh:
     
  15. milkmaid

    milkmaid I'm not addicted - I'm in love!

    Re: Buckling can't stand ~ HELP PLEASE

    :hug: I hope he makes it!
    Regarding whether he is polled or not - the hair pattern is, as close as I can tell, just like my doeling's. I'm no expert at telling polled from horned, but my doeling's hair pattern is unmistakably different from all kids previously born here. I noticed it the moment I first saw her, while she was still wet from birth. (She has a polled dam though, so I was looking for it.) Her brother's head is normal and I can feel horn buds.
    Since your buckling's parents are both horned, if he is polled it must be an original mutation - which is really cool! In which case, unfortunately, there is also the possibility of other mutations that may be the cause of his weakness. :(
    I'm praying for your little guy. I know you have worked very hard to save him. :pray:
     
  16. firelight27

    firelight27 Hopelessly Addicted

    Apr 24, 2009
    Southern Oregon
    Re: Buckling can't stand ~ HELP PLEASE

    If his parents are not polled, yet he is there just may be something wrong with him. The weird ears are definitely different from the norm. Some kids have folded/floppy ears at birth that straighten out...but that looks twisted. I'm thinking he might have formed oddly in the womb. His face/muzzle shape in the picture of him laying on the towel next to the little girl suggests he is somewhat deformed (to my eye)..the falling over sideways and having equilibrium issues coupled with that seems to point towards that as well....If his head is malformed there might be something wrong with his brain as well. Sometimes when we lose kids I honestly believe there is nothing we can do because there are some born with internal issues/mutations, etc. Its sad with those ones because you beat yourself up and try so hard. If he does pass, I fear this is the case, so just know you did everything you could. I'm hoping he does well for you though.
     
  17. shasta05

    shasta05 New Member

    82
    Jun 30, 2011
    northern ca
    Re: Buckling can't stand ~ HELP PLEASE

    I'm sorry you are having to go through this with your little buckling.. sounds like you are doing everything you can! :pray:
     
  18. Skyz84

    Skyz84 Member

    529
    Jul 25, 2011
    San Antonio, Texas
    I've spent over 30 minutes trying to tube feed him :hair: :cry: :cry: :cry: I just can't get it. I've tried every which way.. he's exhausted and so am I. Every time I get the tube 2-3 inches down he starts gagging and choking. I guess I keep hitting the lungs? I can't get him to suck and I feel like the syringe is just putting more fluid in his lungs at this point. I've read and watched videos on tube feeding... I just can't seem to get it... Anyone up at this hour to lend a little advise?
     
  19. Skyz84

    Skyz84 Member

    529
    Jul 25, 2011
    San Antonio, Texas
    Well I'm just not sure what to do for this little guy now. We managed to get the tube down him twice. 1st time I Finally got it in the right place. He was screaming his head off. No bubbles coming out the tube. Took our sweet time being paranoid that it was in fact in the right place. Put 3ccs of water down.... he seemed fine. Then slowly started to tricky milk in. About 15ccs later it was coming up in his mouth and he was gagging. Removed the tube quickly as he was gagging and coughing. Let him rest a minute and decided we needed to retry.. we are getting desperate. Got the tube all the way down to his stomach... checked for bubbles (putting the tube in water). All seemed okay. Kid was screaming his head off. 3 ccs of water went down okay.... then about 10 ccs of milk later it was filling his mouth.

    I feel like I'm killing the little guy :GAAH: :GAAH: :GAAH:

    He is limp again and refusing to swallow. :(
     
  20. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    ok as far as tube feeding is concerned

    stand or sit and hold the little guy between your legs

    hold him by his front legs (I usually hold between the shoulder/knee), so that he is perpendicular - tail to the floor, head up... gently tilt his head backwards (you can support him with your knees) a little way, pretty much making a straight line down to his stomach. Guestimate how far down the tube needs to go by measuring the distance from his mouth to his stomach...

    gently insert the tube at the side of the mouth - usually the tubes are pretty hard over here, and I soak them in hot water directly prior to inserting the tube to soften the plastic and make it less likely to damage the baby.

    having the baby at this angle should make it easier for the tube to go down.

    When you say the milk was filling his mouth - was this around the tube, like coming back up his throat? If so I would suspect that the tube was not down far enough or there was leak on the tube?

    As far as deformations etc are concerned, he does look polled, and he also looks to me to have a definite parrot mouth, but that shouldn't be a big issue. Who knows if there are more issues though...

    Best of luck with the pregnant doe! hope this helps, I can draw diagrams if you like.

    LW