Bucks with CAE

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by Hidden Waters Farm, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Hidden Waters Farm

    Hidden Waters Farm New Member

    444
    Oct 3, 2010
    Maine
    This is my first Topic so I hope its in the right place, Feel free to move it if not.

    I searched TGS for CAE positive bucks with no direct posts so here it goes-

    Im wondering what happens when you breed a CAE positive buck to a non positive doe, Does the doe develop CAE? Will the kids directly "inherit" it? I know that goat research is almost non existent but? I have seen more people then I can count worry about CAE positive does but none seem to think about the bucks?

    I began thinking about this when I found a Purebred positive buck for stud I was hoping to use until I found out. My goats came from CAE negative herds so I dont worry, But what if I come across a buck like this without knowing or the owner didnt bother to test because he is a buck? So I guess my main question is:

    Can Bucks pass CAE on to does/kids? (other then kids being licked by the buck)
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    CAE is not a STD so no they cant get it through breeding from my limited experience.

    But I wouldnt house them together
     

  3. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    There IS a chance that it can be passed from buck to doe during breeding - but rare - a lot like HIV - same concept!

    I would never ever breed to a positive buck. Never own anything positive. And surely would not trust a "cae negative herd" without doing my own testing - seen that one bite someone in the hiney!

    BTW - welcome to the forum!
     
  4. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    It's possible from what i've heard...slim chance...but possible.
     
  5. Hidden Waters Farm

    Hidden Waters Farm New Member

    444
    Oct 3, 2010
    Maine
    kelebek - I actually have proof of the testing from Waddl that they are CAE negative though we will test before breeding this year.

    Its glad to know its a small chance, But Im still not interested in trying it anyways.
     
  6. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I am glad that you have the test reults. I had someone contact me to leaser their animals that "came from a tested herd". I said I would not consider it unless we did testing. Over half the herd of 15 came up positive. Someone else I know - bought animals from 2 different tested herds and they came up positive. Don't trust unless I see the paperwork and know they drew off the correct animals, period - but that is because of what I have seen ;-)
     
  7. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Btw - I have muscovey, too!!! 18 of them!!! Love them to pieces!
     
  8. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    Way too many good, clean bucks out there to risk that. (IMO) I also agree with the necessity of testing every goat... I was just in the process of buying a new doe... but I WILL NOT bring in new stock without having them tested by a vet and sent to a lab I trust for results before purchase.... anyways.... thank goodness because the doe I was looking at buying was CAE AND CL positive. It cost me $103 to have her tested but it was worth every penny to know my herd is still safe. Though I do feel pretty bad for the breeder. :(
     
  9. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I agree....glad you are not using the buck...as mentioned... there are other fish in the sea..... :wink:
     
  10. Hidden Waters Farm

    Hidden Waters Farm New Member

    444
    Oct 3, 2010
    Maine
    It was just something I wonder about, I wanted opinions and Im glad to see Im not crazy to think it. I think pieced together that kids get CAE from being licked and nursing that a buck could give it to the kids or does in the same manner of liquid form.

    Off Topic - I have 1 CAE positive Saanen doe that was given to us, but she and a doe she came with is housed separately from my goat herd just to be safe. Im just disappointed I cant safely breed her for one kidding unless I follow CAE prevention.
    What do you guys think about the idea? they would be tested and kept as pets so I could have something of her.
     
  11. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    as to your CAE positive doe -- if you breed her and pull the kids and bottle feed then yes you can get a negative kid from her, breeders doe this all the time
     
  12. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    even with breeding a cae positive doe, you still run the risk of exposing the male to CAE while breeding, exposing the kids at birth to CAE, and exposing anything else by not washing hands and then touching another animal with infected fluids on you, a baby getting loose and sneaking a suck from an infected dam .... IMHO - NOT worth the risk at all. I would be culling her - but that is me, and some say I am a bit brutal ....
     
  13. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA

    I would be WAY too afraid of exposing a clean buck to a CAE positive doe.... he could contract it from her.... then when you breed him to your clean does.... well I'm sure you can see where that can lead! Way too risky... I wouldn't do it. :(
     
  14. Hidden Waters Farm

    Hidden Waters Farm New Member

    444
    Oct 3, 2010
    Maine
    With this doe, She was given to us as a pet not a breeding animal so even if she doesn't produce kids, Im not going to cull her just because her breeder didnt pull her as a kid. Its jut not her fault.

    Next year we will be breeding through AI only so no risk to the buck that way.

    I dont like CAE or how it affects goats, But I dont bash people who dont have a thought about it either so I guess Im on the wire, However I wont be breeding without testing anyways.
     
  15. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  16. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    If she was given as a pet only, why are you looking at breeding her - even if it is by AI? I am not saying right or wrong - just asking the question..... Also, with the possibility to exposure to kids, no matter how minimal? Any bodily fluid (urine, blood, semen, milk) has the possibility of contaminating the rest of the animals - directly or indirectly. Is this a risk worth taking and would you divulge to any and all prospective buyers that you have a CAE positive doe on the property.

    These are just questions to think about, you do not have to answer on the forum - just think about. Again, I am not saying that there is a "right or wrong" as everyone is allowed to run their farm in the way that fits them and their animals the best.

    Personally, for me - I will not purchase from a farm that does not test or one that has any positive animals on the farm. They must also practice the same protocals that I do as far as testing and have test results to show from a reputable lab :)
     
  17. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I have not read or heard that a buck can get CAE through breeding to a postive doe -- but I have heard of people successfully getting kids from postive does and hand raising and the kid being negative. I really think it is way beyond harsh to say never to breed a CAE positive goat especially if you are going to take all the precautions necessary to ensure the kid is negative. Many great goats have come from positive animals and we have them in our pedigrees to this day. (at one point all the gay-mor herd was CAE positive, heard this from Gail Putcher herself)

    the ONLY way PROVEN for CAE is be transmitted is through the milk to the kids and through blood to blood contact (one cut to another). All else is speculation.
     
  18. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I just did a search on the net, and even the WADDL site "What are the major means of spread of the virus? The CAE virus is primarily transmitted to kids via colostrum in the first few feedings after birth. Contact transmission between adults goats is considered to be rare except during lactation."
    - but no where does it state 100% exposure is only from ingesting contaminated milk that I could find.

    Some might be willing to take that risk - however, I personally would not. The other thing is, would a person be willing to breed said doe, and then hold all kids to minimum 6 months of age to then pay for testing to confirm that the kid did not contract CAE from the dam or from milk that was not pasturized correctly ... the one batch that just didn't get quite hot enough for the specific amount of time, prior to selling the offspring? Yes, there have been some positive animals that have greatly contributed to the breed - but there are also many that have that are not carrying a disease that I can assume that every goat breeder would like to see eradicated - for the health of the animals - and the only way to do this is to NOT breed positive animals or even cull those animals.

    I am NOT trying to cause an arguement - but I think that all sides need to be voiced - and as I said previously - I am not saying what is right or wrong, but I feel a devil's advocate needs to be said so that the owner can make the best decision for her, the animals, and any animals around. That is all.
     
  19. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    If you have to say "Im not trying to argue" then you probably are ;)

    but I do know your point and I respect it, but I will agree to disagree respecfully I hope you can do the same.
     
  20. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    course I can - just didn't want you to think that I was - cause I am not ... if I was ... it is usually really known ;-)