CAE Questions & Management

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by TSTrinh, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. TSTrinh

    TSTrinh New Member

    15
    Jun 3, 2016
    SW Michigan
    Hi Everybody!

    It’s been a good few years since I’ve been around. I mainly just lurk around now. ;) We haven’t had many bumps in the road thankfully, however, I am finding myself in an impending crap storm with CAE+ goats. I need a advice and education.

    Background:
    MSU just put down one of my 6yr old goats due to being CAE+ w/complications. His suffering was horrific and the CAE+ was NOT expected Nor on the radar because all three brothers were “supposedly“ tested prior to them arriving to us. We have a Fort Knox style closed herd with the three brothers pets. This whole situation is an angry story in itself, but my vet has now verifiably tested the remaining two and we got positives for CAE only. Now a second one is starting to show clinical signs within the last two weeks. He’s had a bit of lameness, lifting legs, weight shifting, decreased movement, seeing a little weight loss & getting a slightly rough coat. No swollen joints or pneumonia symptoms, yet. He’s been coppered and dewormed. Famacha/Fecals/Temperature are all good. He’s happy, eating, just moving slower, but doesn’t seem to be in pain, yet. The second wether is great just has a little clicking in his joints. We are waiting on my vet to provide pain management & suggestions on care, but I’d like to ask questions here to find out more about CAE+ supportive / palliative care since my vet doesn’t give me much confidence.

    Questions:
    Is day to day pain management possible? Are there otc pain supplements, joint supplements and/or herbal supplements I can incorporate into his daily regimen along with what may happen with the vet? Is there anyone here who has managed CAE+ goats for long term who would be willing to share tips and be a mentor? I know I will need to get a companion(s) and it may be sooner than expected. I don’t want to rehome my last goat unless that’s the nuclear option (husband surely doesn’t), but I would have no idea where to start, so l want to focus on companions. I’m exceptionally concerned about introducing a new goat, though. I am EXTREMELY worried someone will lie to us again about testing/fabricate papers and I will have to deal with more than just CAE. So, how do I go about finding a companion? Should I try to find another CAE+ goat? Do any of the members here have CAE+ goats? Are there honest rescues for these situations? Am I being truly being irresponsible if I get a CAE- companion then keep it with my CAE+ wether? Does it need to be another wether or should it be a female? Is age a big deal? Would more than one companion be better? Would a mini donkey or mini cow or horse be an alternate companion option? Are there more places I can go to find info on the process of adding a companion/introductions/tips since I’m sure my goat will be a jerk (he is the “herd queen” & resident pain in the arse bully).

    I will leave it at that for now being it’s an overload of questions. I really want to cover my bases and be prepared. Like everything this is the worst timing. I know it’s not the end of the world, but we truly need some guidance from more experienced goat owners. We have also reached out to a CAE group on Facebook, but I’m more comfortable asking advice here.

    thank you - TS
     
  2. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    It will not be irresponsible at all to bring in a new companion or two. They won't contract CAE. I would recommend an adult wether or wethers that has been tested twice after a year old, or perhaps a doe/kid wether pair with the doe having been tested twice after a year old and the kid exclusively dam-raised.

    Do you mind sharing a bit more about the circumstances of testing for your three pets when you acquired them? How long ago? How old were they? Bottle raised? Which animals were tested?

    I don't have CAE experience but other members do, hang tight and they'll offer their experiences!
     
    Iluvlilly! likes this.

  3. TSTrinh

    TSTrinh New Member

    15
    Jun 3, 2016
    SW Michigan
    I don’t mind. I am in this situation because I didn’t make sure I knew more and did not ensure I did the right things for my goats. It’s a bad lesson to learn on the go, sadly, so hopefully this helps someone else getting into goats.

    The triplets arrived in 2016 so they are almost 6 now. I asked for a lot of testing info upfront, i.e. Big 3 testing, lab used, fecals, testing frequency, herd testing, vaccinations, etc. Everything I received showed negative, but did not give % or numbers only +\-. I took that for granite & didn’t question anything because nothing was positive (looked legit). I did not check to see if the lab was credible/real or question red flags. Michigan State helped me through what she sent and to see those issues once everything happened. I felt dumb. Supposedly she tested them, the mother and her entire herd at the same time. The triplets were approximately 3 wks old at the time. Red flags. I made the mistake of not having them tested as soon as they came to me (not normal at that age) nor did I have them tested at the standard recommendation of 6mos. I never tested them until we had this emergency at MSU. She did not “catch” the kids at birth. She was opposed to kids staying with the mother, but I was opposed to bottle feeding, so they stayed with mom supposedly until they came to me at 8/9 wks. I had another red flag I failed catch at that point because they all arrived with a bad case of coccidiosis & huge worm-load. Now that we determined everything I received from her was not truthful & had to PTS one of the triplets, we are in catch up mode. The remaining two have now been tested and are positive for CAE only. We are retesting to rule out false positives, but I am pretty sure we have CAE goats, sadly.
     
  4. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    I'm so sorry your pets have the disease. I don't think you did anything wrong at all. Some breeders do not understand the limitations of testing well and some testing provides a false sense of security. It really takes several tests over a couple years to know that a herd is clean. Unfortunately there is no straight simple answer. I understand your anxiety in purchasing now and how to ensure the new goats are disease-free. It's really tough when shopping around and you're trying to drill the owner with a million questions.

    Your goats are 4 years old rather than 6 years old, correct? You mentioned 2016 in your description. 4 years old seems to line up with a typical CAE timeframe. Buying a 5-6 year old goat is actually a very favorable option as in most cases CAE & Johnes would both be very obvious or even fatal by then. Unfortunately CL could still have been hiding their whole life and an abcess could appear due to the stress of moving.

    I think @lottsagoats1 may have some insight for you on day to day management of CAE positive goat.

    Here is a thread on CAE that may benefit you:
    https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/cae-discussion.153031/

    And one on managing joint pain:
    https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/what-to-give-a-goat-with-arthritis.207127/
     
  5. TSTrinh

    TSTrinh New Member

    15
    Jun 3, 2016
    SW Michigan
    Sorry yes on the age lol I keep typing 6‍♀️ we are def hitting the point where it’s known to show clinical symptoms. Thankfully we only have CAE to deal with not CL or anything else, so zero abscesses. I won’t have CL on my property.

    My case is a bit unique because we were flat out lied to and labs were fabricated. She’ll just keep selling known infected goats and I’m calling everything a lost cause at this point. Hopefully, no one will be getting pets from her, but doubtful.

    We do have the vet coming out earlier than expected because as of a few minutes ago the one is showing signs of a bit more pain & now a little stressed with the heatwave so we need that help immediately. I’m not sure how long he will last because all the signs are there that he’s going downhill. Now I’m in “fix it” mode for the remaining goat on top of everything. Thank you for the links, too. I read through those previously hoping to find something before I posted. I already use the joint supplement from Molly’s herbals which was good to see others liked it too. :)

    Everything else I’ve read is more about eradication from a herd, though. I’m definitely looking more for palliative care. There is not much info out there as far as long term CAE+ pets / companion wethers or does who are no longer bred up to the point of euthanasia. Maybe it’s because they go down so quickly. I was hoping I could find someone who has a regimen of long term care. I would also love to get in touch with people who have found homes / farms that care for CAE+ goats, too. I’d imagine if they are out there they could point me in the right direction on care as well. There is no doubt I’ll need companions for the goat that will be remaining soon. It would be nice to find anyone with goats they’d be willing to work with me as companions or know of people whom they trust that have CAE goats available. I feel like I’m on the losing end of that battle right, though.
     
    toth boer goats and Iluvlilly! like this.