Can't Make up My Mind!!

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by capriola-nd, Sep 11, 2008.

  1. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    I cannot decide if I should keep a blue-eyed doeling out of one of my favorite does and sell the dam or keep the dam and sell the doeling!! Here's some more information - maybe hearing different viewpoints will help me decide. . . .

    The doeling is more gentle than her dam, she has really nice conformation and I love her color, really pretty to me. The only problem I have w/ her right now are that her teats look small and are kind of set far apart, not too bad though. She's only 5 weeks though. . . .

    The dam is the first doe I bought, she is not too friendly but not wild. She has excellent conformation but her udder is not my favorite. Her teats are spaced kind of far apart and she has a small pocket in her foreudder. :GAAH: I freaked out when I saw that pocket but then talked w/ another breeder and she said it is very common, since the Nigerian breed is a fairly new breed. I'm still annoyed about it as the lady I bought her from didn't mention it. She must have seen it, don't know how you miss that kind of thing on a freshened doe. Anyways, this doe is a very good producer and a great mother. . . .

    I can't keep both, unfortunately. What would you do??? The other option would be to just sell both. . . .

    Doeling:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Dam's udder - 35 days fresh w/ just under 12 hours of milk (not very impressive, I know)
    [​IMG]

    I have pics of Honey on our website under "Does 2"

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts! ;)
     
  2. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    Well she's only 5 weeks old. I've had doelings that I absolutely hated at that age, I let them go a couple more months, they matured, things filled out and changed and then they started looking nice :) I'd say wait a couple more months on the doeling before you decide. I can never actually tell how the teat placement will be on them until I see them freshen, sometimes it looks to wide as a kid but once they freshen it isn't that bad.

    Who is the doeling's sire? If the sire has the right genetics behind him, he may improve the udder on the doeling.

    I see one other daughter of Honey's on your website, her teat placement doesn't look that bad :)

    Personally, if Honey is one of those does who keeps producing better than herself(I think her daughter is nicer than her, imo) I would keep Honey and probably one daughter out of her, but that's just me :)
     

  3. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I agree, Honeys doeling looks really nice...but it is really hard to tell what she'll be like as an adult at only 5 weeks old. Honey could stand to have a better medial and higher rear....and if the doelings sire has good udders behind him she very well could be an improvement over her dam.
     
  4. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    capriola-nd ..I agree with the others,,.give it some time......she is still quite young.........
    you are right she is a pretty little thing..... of course like Liz says... you will not know what the doe will do until she matures with the udder, to bad you could not keep both does until she is of breeding age, and beginning to fill her bag..............It will be hard to predict unless you can see her as an adult.....................
     
  5. Sweet Gum Minis

    Sweet Gum Minis New Member

    Oct 6, 2007
    Easley, SC
    The rule of thumb that most breeders will say is that if you believe the buck will improve the doe keep the kid and sell the doe. If you don't think he will or if you think she's just more of the same then don't.
     
  6. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    I'm pretty sure the sire has improved the doe kid. . . . but it is hard to tell. I do have a daughter from Honey already and she does have really nice teat placement (hasn't freshened yet) and her teats are VERY long. It's a gamble but I might keep the doe kid and sell Honey, only to a great home though, she's a good doe. I keep going back and forth. I don't want to lose a good brood doe w/ Honey but also do not want to sell a really great doeling that should be kept. . . .
     
  7. Sweet Gum Minis

    Sweet Gum Minis New Member

    Oct 6, 2007
    Easley, SC
    I've kept several kids this year and sold their dams. Kind of hard but when you're trying to maintain a certain number you have to cut somewhere.
     
  8. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Personally I would keep the dam. If she's throwing these gorgeous kids for you then you might just want to wait and see what you get next year. Mom is already proven and throwing awesome kids from what we've seen so far. It will be another year before you could breed this doe and she may not even turn out how you'd like. It's hard decision for sure, but I would make the choice of keeping the dam. Unless you want to keep the doe kid for another 5-8 weeks to see her a bit better than i'd go with momma. Good luck with whichever way you go! :thumb:
     
  9. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    I was just thinking maybe I'll keep Honey and wait to see if she passed on that pocket to Lyla (waiting for Lyla to come in heat so she can be bred). If she doesn't and I am thrilled w/ her udder then maybe keep another doe from Honey. . . . this all makes a little bit of sense in my head, not sure how it sounds to everyone here. :)
     
  10. heavenlyhaven

    heavenlyhaven Senior Member

    627
    Apr 16, 2008
    Belmont, NY
    i love the does i have now
    but i want to keep improving my herd
    so
    next spring
    (depending on what they kid with)
    i will keep doelings and sell does
    i don't have a lot of property so i need to keep my numbers down
    so that is my only choice
    honestly, there is only one that i don't want to sell and i will cry when she goes but...
    JMHO
     
  11. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    If you can only keep one i would go for the kid. Hopefully you bred your doe to a buck thats dam was nicer, hence making an improvement. If you are able to keep both i would breed the dam to a DIFFERENT buck to see if she can consistantly throw the improvements that you are seeing in this years kid.
    A lot of the time i dont get to do this, as i keep such a small herd thats most of the time once i get a doe kid i keep the kid and sell the dam. This year i was only able to keep two doe kids that i was able to keep the dam out of as well.
    beth
     
  12. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California

    Yes I agree,if in doubt keep her and see........................
    If she is worth it to you ,it will be wiser to keep her......... then get rid of her and later she turns out gorgeous ,this is if you are allowed to keep the 2 ,,with the little doeling you do have a long wait ahead ,but it could be worth it in the end................... :shrug:


    I wrote this below in a previous post,maybe you did not see it ? :?

     
  13. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    Yes, I did do that. I'm striving to improve the breed so bought a buck w/ great general appearance out of a very nice doe & sire.

    I kind of like the personality of the doe kid better than her dam. She is more gentle and calm.

    Honey has been bred to three different bucks. A PromisedLand buck, a Sugar Pine, and a Camanna. All three breedings produced beautiful kids.
     
  14. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    Oh, I may be able to keep both but I don't really want to. . . . I'd like to keep a doe kid out of another one of our does. I'm kind of concerned though because I have had no interest in the little doe kid yet. She was reserved but the lady backed out.
     
  15. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    thats another thing to think about. Numbers. especially if you may end up wanting to keep another that may be better. Another thing to think about when showing is age groups. You dont want all of your does in the same age class. I prefere to have no more then two per age group. I generally keep five or six kids a year try to freshen all of them and then pick out two or three at most and the rest go after they freshen. I may widdle that number down even more when they are two.
    beth
     
  16. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    That's a good point, Beth. We do want to show next year. . . . I'm not sure I'll take all the jr. does we have, some I don't think would be behave themselves as well as others. :)

    We do want to keep a doe from Sassafras, she has an awesome udder!! So, hopefully I find a buyer soon for Carrie. . . .
     
  17. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    Just curious. . . . am I being really paranoid about the small pocket in Honey's foreudder?? Is this really something kind of common in the Nigerian breed? When I found it, I kind of flipped, well actually, I was more sad than anything. It shocks me because she comes from really great lines, no problems that I know of. . . . I'm hoping this was fixed w/ Lyla, really, really hoping. . . . :pray:
     
  18. artsy_farmgirl

    artsy_farmgirl Goat Fancier

    39
    Feb 29, 2008
    Florida
    My two cents on this probably is to keep the doeling. First, because with a good buck you may get an improved udder over the dam. Since the dam's udder seems to bother you, the worst case scenario is that she also will need improvement on the udder(if you ask me not many breeders will claim their goats to have perfect udders, there is always room for improvement), but you may be pleasantly surprised. Second, she has the blue eyes, which is a good marketing point for her offspring, and third when you raise her yourself she will have an even better disposition so you will enjoy having her around more. The possible down side is losing a doe in milk, but on the up side you can charge more for a doe in milk than a kid.. Hope that makes sense, and lovely goat photos by the way. :)
     
  19. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    Well, personally im a stickler for a nice udder, after all i doo have to look at it at least twice a day. On the ADGA scorecard, the udder is worth 35 total points. Other then capacity the foreudder is wirth the most being at seven points. In the AGS scorecard the foreudder is worth eight points. In your picture of her i cant see the foreudder, the biggest problem i see with it is the medial, there is virtually none. Another thing to think about is how long is that udder going to hold up to years of milkings? I have heard people say wait and see her another year, you can only evaluate to does udder so much in her first year, and i agree to an extent. But from my personal experience the only thing you get the next year is more capacity, if she has a poor medial and poor attachments the first year they are not going to improve the next year, if anything they will weaken even more because of the added capacity and added weight of more milk. If i like a kid that much out of her but i dont like her udder i may keep her around another year to see if i can get another doe kid from a different buck, to see if she can throw the consistancy. Overall this is a your call situation as they are with your own animals. Just another opinion from one breeder to the next.
    beth
     
  20. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    Thank you! I really appreciate your opinion (and everyone else's).

    I decided to keep her around another year. I'll probably breed her to Royal Blue again but may be able to use a different buck (NC PromisedLand HS Lion King). Lion King's health isn't so good right now, so I don't know if I'll be able to use him or not. He's actually Royal's sire.
    LK been producing some really nice kids w/ very correct conformation. His daughters are only first-fresheners right now, but they freshened w/ really nice attachments, just not so much capacity, hopefully they get more capacious.

    I've been talking w/ my aunt (who also raises Nigerians). She has a really nice doe, Mountain Quest Cinnamon Swirl (Twin Creeks BT As You Like It *S x 2xGCH Goodwood Cinnamon Swirl) - Anyways, she wants to get Carrie, so offered a trade for a doeling (Swirl is due in January) she is bred to Lion King. Moonspots and incredible conformation/mammary systems are possible. So, if she is still good w/ that idea, I think I might do that. What do u think??

    Here's a so-so pic of Honey's foreudder (please forgive all the hair, I only clipped around her udder)
    [​IMG]

    I know for a fact that Honey's sire's lines, the medial takes awhile to fully develop. Honey is 2 1/2 yrs. So, I'm kind of losing hope for her to ever have much of a medial. . . . Next week, I'm going to try and get a better udder pic.