Castration death

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Chicknmomma, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    I forgot to say, when I first got started in goats, Decades Ago, the breeder I bought from used the snip the bottom, pull testicle, pull testicle, give a shot of penicillin method. But that was done young, really young, like at the same age as disbudding young. No knowledge of the dangers of UC, probably because adult wethers weren't a thing in that world.

    The more we know, the more we know we don't know... Hang in there. You have more accessible knowledge in your fingertips than I had in an entire public library. Yes, we had libraries then....

    You are going to come through this sadness.
     
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  2. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    You are right, not all vets know goats.
    It is sad, because we do put all faith in them, thinking they must know something. But of course we sometimes just won't know until something horrible such as this happens. It isn't your fault, you didn't know the vet wasn't going to do it right. Two goats died, a big loss. :( Don't blame yourself, just try to remember to band them when they are young and old enough to do so.
    Again, I am so very sorry. :(
     

  3. DonnaBelle66

    DonnaBelle66 Active Member

    I know that the longer you wait to have a buckling castrated by whatever method is better. Having said that, when you do have it done several factors come into play. If the goat is older, and the weather is cool or cold and you have no flies, it can be done surgically. If the weather is warm, flies are present, it is best to band. The surgical method is more humane, less pain for the goat when pain medication is administered and given to owner for followup pain control. However, banding is also painful, especially for the first few days. But pain medication can be given then too. Castrating a buckling is a tricky thing. You don't want to do it too young as it causes problems if they are fed too much grain. Wethers really only need good hay, fresh water and minerals.
     
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  4. TDG-Farms

    TDG-Farms Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State

    Jul 12, 2013
    Am so sorry to hear this :( That method is good for cows and sheep but not goats. The burdizzo imo is the best way if to old to band.
     
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  5. singinggoatgirl

    singinggoatgirl Well-Known Member

    Apr 13, 2016
    the deep south
    Having worked in a medical office before, that wording "the stress/worms was too much" sounds like a translation of "Oops, maybe I did mess up, but I can't afford to lose the money/client/get sued, so I will state something that could be true, and to make it look like I'm right and still know what I'm talking about." Human doctors are much more paranoid about getting sued (for good reason), but still, from my cynical perspective, it sounds like he/she realizes that they did something wrong (might not know what they did wrong, but 2 out of 2 in a routine procedure is HUGE) and are trying to save face. He/she might even be trying to assure themselves. Castrating is surgery, but it is such a common and routine one that things should not go that far wrong. I'm so sorry you lost your goats.
     
  6. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    very sorry to read this..sounds like the vet took the low road to blame stress and worms..any vet worth their salt you make sure the goat was healthy enough for surgery and the method was barbaric and ..Im very sorry you and they went through this. we band here and often hear folks say its cruel..but its effective...we always have banamine handy if they need it...some do some dont..again, Im very sorry for your loss
     
  7. TDG-Farms

    TDG-Farms Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State

    Jul 12, 2013
    Did you happen to see how he cut the cords? A straight cut (even like cutting a fresh birth cord with scissors can result in bleeding out. For cords the knife needs to be at about a 90 degree angle and you more or less shave the cord.
     
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  8. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    The cut was at the bottom of the scrotal sack. The testicles were pulled, not cut. At least that is how I interpreted what the OP said happened.
     
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  9. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Wow, very sorry for your losses. Sounds like something went wrong. Maybe internal bleeding. I wouldn't think losing both all of a sudden like that would happen from just stress alone. I suppose they could have gone into shock? Are you sure the vet didn't give them some sort of medication that did something? This sounds very strange to me. I could see maybe one having an issue, but having both die so soon after the procedure. Something went wrong. I would not be happy with that vet.

    Also wanted to mention that if you can get the testicles through the castrater band, you can band at any age. The older they get the harder it is on then, but I've banded adult bucks with no problems at all. I've banded hundreds of buck kids as well and not one has had any sort of issue. I really feel it's one of, if not the safest method out there.

    Again, very sorry for your losses. If you find anything out, let us know.
     
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  10. catharina

    catharina Catharina

    Mar 16, 2016
    Northern California
    I am so sorry for your losses! Just heartbreaking to read about! At the very least, the vet should refund your money. Otherwise you can give him a bad Yelp review maybe?
     
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  11. O'Boy Goats

    O'Boy Goats New Member

    17
    Nov 1, 2015
    Tennessee
    I'm so sorry to hear about this. I had an experience with this method. When I went to get two more young goats, the lady had done this method herself to both of the boys right there in the barnyard with a pair of scissors and a bottle of iodine. It was appalling to me. (no offense to anyone who uses the castration method--it was this situation and how it was done in particular that was very bad) I was glad to just get the kids in the car and get them to their new home with us. Arturo (that's him in my profile picture) was very small and delicate. I don't think the woman was truthful about his age and after it was all said and done and we had our vet see him, I believe he was not 8 weeks old and very small like the woman said, but more like 4 or 5 weeks old at the time. I thought he was going to die that night. I sat up most of the night with them. I had both in a large crate with blankets inside in my bedroom and I laid on the floor next to them. Armando was clearly not feeling well and needed to rest but was doing alright. Arturo went downhill fast. Within 4 or 5 hours, he couldn't even hold up his head and somewhere around 3 am, I didn't know if he was even breathing. I did everything I knew to do to bring him around but also let him rest and when I finally fell asleep, I just knew he would be gone in the morning. I woke to find him trying to move and to hold his head up a little and I was so thankful he was still there. We kept them in the house for a week just letting them heal. I will never do this again. Not ever. The banding method takes more time, but I feel that it's less traumatic and less risky. Again, I'm so sorry you lost the two boys.
     
  12. TexasGoatMan

    TexasGoatMan Well-Known Member

    595
    Jul 3, 2015
    Dekalb, Texas
    Sorry to hear that you lost your goat. Vets around here don't really like to work on goats. I just use the band method and so far no issues. However I would suggest that the earlier you band the better. Or should I say the younger the kid the better as long as you are sure to get both testicles.
     
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  13. thaddeusss

    thaddeusss Junior Member

    11
    Jan 15, 2013
    gaston, or
    That's terrible. A few years ago we had a vet kill one of our goats with pain meds after he broke a leg. He'd been fine except swelling at the site, after she gave him the meds he got really lethargic and wouldn't eat, slowly recovered. Took him in again to see why he seemed ill and she gave him another shot - he went rapidly downhill immediately after and died right after we got home. Pretty frustrating. I've seen goats recover completely from a leg that was not only broken but literally dangling snapped in half. They're tough.

    That said, I quit banding when an old shepherd taught me to pull the testes out. Slice off the tip of the scrotum with a razor, push the scrotum back and pull out the testes one at a time with a quick but consistent pull. Then I use a quick dab of an herb powder blend that is antibacterial and styptic.
    I was taugh to use my teeth to pull them out, which I do, but I know others use their hands and it still works fine.

    Hurts them like hell for a second but by the next day they're just like new again and they're totally healed in a week or less. Seems much less painful and complication prone than banding, and I could never get a burdizzo to work right.

    I always wait until 8 weeks minimum but I have done it at 8 months with no problems. It is harder on them as they get older but not so much as to be dangerous IMO.

    OTOH, I love to eat the 'oysters', which is a side benefit of pulling them vs other methods. And, if I wait til they're older, they're bigger.
     
  14. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    The method you describe is EXACTLY the method that killed those goats. Except for the teeth part.
     
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  15. fivemoremiles

    fivemoremiles Well-Known Member

    Jan 19, 2010
    western montana
    My father was a vet and he taught me to cut the scrotum as has been described above
    pull one testicle out. take two forceps attach one forceps to the cord near the body of the goat and the other forceps attach near the testicle. then while holding the lower forceps. he put his finger through the finger loop of the forceps that was attached near the testicle and rotate the forceps until the testicle cord would break. he would then repeat the procedure with the other testicle. By twisting the cord you would crimp the blood vessels and stop the bleeding. I have castrated horses bulls rams hogs and I prefer the bands
     
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  16. peggy

    peggy Senior Member

    Aug 10, 2010
    B.C. Canada
    I am so very sorry you lost your boys. Now I am worried cause I am getting my 6 year old buck surgically castrated in a couple weeks. I was going to band him with the calicrate bander but thought that he would be in too much pain for too long considering how much tissue has to go numb. His testicles are huge. So I decided to get my vet to surgically castrate him and get it over with. I know that she has castrated adult bucks before with success so I trust she knows what she is doing but I am still terribly worried.
     
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  17. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Here's my thought. No need to worry, simply ask about the procedure. Your vet will be glad to tell you what he/she will be doing. If you see anything (in the explanation) that causes you concern, please just ask. A buck that old, if testicles are to be removed, should have stitches to stop the bleeding. Feel free to ask about that. Same with general anesthesia. You have the right to know that is the intention, you have the right to know what measures they'll take to avoid the problems. AND you have the right to wrinkle your brow.

    If you don't like the answers, you have the right to say, "I need to research this more." After all, this is not a life-saving operation. No buck I know of has died from NOT being castrated!!!!

    I'm glad you have confidence in your vet. That speaks well of him/her.

    My vet office has never made me feel weird for asking or suggesting. We've made bad decisions, but not because I was bullied into anything.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  18. odieclark

    odieclark Well-Known Member

    Jan 21, 2016
    Great advise!

    Not sure if this has been stated or asked, but does the vet come by you, or do you go to the vet?

    I ask, as an animal is likely more comfortable in its own environment-just like us, we would rather be at home?....
     
  19. We bought a burdizzo - a good quality one from Premier sheep supply. I would never band or surgically castrate after using this. They scream of course when you do it but it is over - no hunched up pain like banding, no wound to infect. I hold the kid and my husband does the deed. I think the tool was around 100. and well worth it.
     
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  20. greenbtree

    greenbtree New Member

    13
    Oct 8, 2016
    Iowa
    I just recently got my first goats. I have one male that I wanted neutered, so after research I decided on the Burdizzo method. Luckily a vet a half an hour away has one and experience using it. Even with that method the vet gave him a numbing shot before the proceedure. My male (Goatie McGoatface) was a bit sore (walking just a little stiffly) for a day or two, but had no other issues. If I was going to have males to neuter on a regular basis, I would definitely buy a Burdizzo. As it was, the vet charged me $14.65, and that included the shot.
     
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