Chlamydia Abortus; second year in herd

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Far North, Mar 15, 2020.

  1. Far North

    Far North New Member

    2
    Mar 15, 2020
    Finland, MN
    Hello, I would like to share the case history of what I perceive to be Chlamydia in my herd, and solicit advice and ideas on how to manage it. Our goal is to tend a closed herd, excepting the bi-annual buck purchase, selecting for qualities that do well in our situation, which is far north, long winters, and forest browse in the summer (converting to more regenerative ground plants over time). Last year was supposed to be the final purchase to acquire the size that we thought sustainable when....
    The best-looking, healthiest doe from the most reputable source aborted at about 12 weeks. Following, several others aborted, (4-5 in all) and after some research we brought home some LA-200, which stemmed the tide and saved the kids of the remaining 2 does. Several symptoms were present indicating Ch. Abortus, such as eye discharge and bloody tails across the herd, and low milk production even, and several symptoms of other "abortion storm" illnesses were absent. No tests were performed.
    This year, we have seven does that we hope are bred, with first kids possible on April 12th. I have been administering LA-200 at a doseage of 1cc/20-25 lb. subcutaneously on the ribs, for the past 6 weeks. All goats seem healthy, good eyelids, good backstraps, good appetites :), good coats, with the exception of the oldest who is losing just a bit of hair. We also have an unbred yearling doe, and two yearling bucks, who have not received any medication.
    I would like to attempt to get Chlamydia out of the herd, and/or select for goats that seem to recover well (those who miscarry the first year and then gain resistance) or are not affected. Towards this possibility,what would be the best approach? For right now, as far as management goes, should the newborn kids be administered anything/could this help to eliminate the disease? Are they exposed at birth, and destined to harbor the disease until their own pregnancies, even if the does have been getting their weekly shot? Can a shot eliminate the disease in their system or just temporarily kick it down? Or, should I simply plan to administer a shot to all first year expecting does, for the next 2-3 years? Then, if an older doe miscarries for a second time, perhaps cull her? If I administered shots to the first year doe, and then in her second year she was exposed to the disease via an older doe who miscarried, would she be more or less susceptible to the disease, for having recieved the antibiotic the during the previous pregnancy? Perhaps I should administer shots to all the does who have been exposed now, and the ones to be born, each season until they have all died and been replaced? Or could it be sooner? Will repeated use of the antibiotic in the whole herd eventually get rid of the disease? Will the heavy use of the antibiotic strengthen the disease for all of us?
    Many questions towards long-term sustainability and resiliency, and the best management practice!
    Thank you for your time and interest!
     
  2. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    @goathiker would probably have ideas for you.
     

  3. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    Texas meat goats has a great info on Chlamydia and how to handle it.
     
  4. goathiker

    goathiker I'm watching you Staff Member Supporting Member

    Clamydia is alive in 2 places, the fetal tissuel and the gonads of the buck. It is very much an STD. Now that we can no longer get the effective feed through treatments we run into this problem. Over use of antibiotics causing even more resistance.
    6 weeks of tetracycline? Wow really?
    Well, I guess this will answer a question that we have never been brave enough to try. We are all going to be very curious about the bone deformities and bright orange teeth of the future kids.
    Clamydia is late term abortion, treatment from day 120 to day 130, treatment of surviving kids and all bucks. For 3 years.

    I have to wonder why you think it's clamydia? Do you have cats and other rodents? When I lived in interior Alaska they were rampant, along with loose domestic pigs, rabbits, and nasty garbage eating eagles, kit foxes, and carnivorous beetle larvae. All of which carried different diseases.
    Coccidia flourished at 40 below and the rules were just different for living.
    This forum might have a heart attack about having to feed a 1/2 cup of oil per day just to keep animals warm but, that's the way it was then.
     
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  5. goathiker

    goathiker I'm watching you Staff Member Supporting Member

    , even if the does have been getting their weekly shot?

    This is a problem. Where did you get any protocol for once a week injection?
     
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  6. goathiker

    goathiker I'm watching you Staff Member Supporting Member

  7. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    Honestly the first thing I would do is take a deep breath and a few steps back. I would start with getting a confirmed result of what exactly you are dealing with. I’ve had abortion storms over urea in their protein tubs, a few years ago I was convinced it was chlamydia but turned out to be selenium deficiency. Also you can get medicated feed to treat chlamydia, it just also has to be threw a vet. I’m really not one that the first thing that pops out of my mouth (or fingers) is go to a vet, but I’m not sure if you are aware or not but they are planning on taking all antibiotics away from us and can only go threw a vet to get them for the whole country. I think this is supposed to be within the next few years. Someone claimed on here that chlamydia can be tested with a blood draw. I’m not sure if that is correct. When called a few years ago about figuring this out I wasn’t told to draw blood but to bring the placenta and fetus in.
    If you choose to just go with the La200, I’m also not seeing how weekly shots is really going to do anything either. I don’t remember what the protocol is for treatment but I’m pretty sure it was days of treatment I believe 2X during pregnancy. And yes don’t forget your buck!
     
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  8. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Very good advice you guys.
     
  9. Far North

    Far North New Member

    2
    Mar 15, 2020
    Finland, MN
    Ok, thank you for your ideas. Goathiker, I would encourage you to reflect on the tone of your response; I am surely not intending to do any harm to my unborn kids, and if I did inadvertently, due to seemingly sound advice, I would be very sad. For this reason, I have not used forums before, and from now on I will be using extension services or other publicly available, professional information, instead of interacting remotely in a way that is not considerate. Best to all of you and your herds, Far North
     
  10. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Goathikers, tone sometimes is straight forward and we may take it wrong.

    Goathiker is very concerned with the way the meds were given and that is a legitimate concern.

    We mean no harm.
    Sorry if you were hurt. :(
     
  11. goathiker

    goathiker I'm watching you Staff Member Supporting Member

    Goathiker is pecking out words on a 3 inch screen and is a gruff straightforward person.
    The rumor about the tetracycline during pregnancy is something that supposedly everyone one knows even though it has never been proven. It is a holdover from the 60s when young pregnant teenagers were given injections for acne. So yes, that was tongue in cheek and probably uncalled for.

    Goathiker is also annoyed by rumors that are repeated over and over that are untrue or taken out of context. In reality tetracycline binds to calcium and will create yellow stains on the bones and teeth of fetuses where it is used as a building material. The rest of it is unfounded rumor.
     
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  12. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    The trouble with typing on a screen is that no one can see the emotions and facial expressions that we all use as cues in reactions. No one on this site means to be negatively critical and really, everyone here just wants to help, learn, and do the best for the goats. Please don't go away.

    I am always questioning the "They" saids and "they" always did!
    Please stay!!!
     
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  13. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Was the same buck used this year?

    It does sounds like last years miscarriages were on the early side to be attributed to Chlamydia. Were you very sure of the due dates?

    Wishing you a healthy and productive kidding season.
     
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  14. JenniferHHH

    JenniferHHH New Member

    1
    Mar 21, 2020
    Ft. Lauderdale, Fl
    Hi all. I am new to this forum and am searching for information and help diagnosing/treating a new condition on one of my 3-4week post kidding does. Both of her bucklings were stillborn. One was so huge the head was stuck and I had to call the vet to help her deliver. The whole situation was such a disaster... and this was the second bad kidding experience in a month. One of my other does had kidded triplets just a month prior where 2 were stillborn and 1 lived just a week and seemed to have respiratory issues and lost the ability to suckle. So, now this... and I really could use your combined experience and wisdom. (I can’t figure out how to start a new post or thread so I am posting here-please forgive me!) Thank you for any help you can offer.
     

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  15. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California