CL and coughing?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by bheila, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. bheila

    bheila New Member

    644
    Jan 9, 2009
    Kent, Wa
    I had posted on here a couple of times for a friend who was puzzled about why her goats were coughing and what the causes could be. We all of coarse thought it was the obvious, allergies, dust, mold, and lungworms. She cleaned all of the old bedding out of her barn, looked through all of her hay, treated her goats for lungworms 2 times and that didn't seem to be affective. It been since around the beginning of March that she's been battling this.

    My friend (Julie) called me last week crying because she finally discovered why her goats have been coughing and nothing has cured their coughs. 2 of her goats have CL lumps. She noticed that one goats had a lump on the back of one of her back legs last week but she thought it was a bee sting. Then another one of her goats has a lumps in each armpit. She's devastated :tears: The lady she got the goats from came highly recommended stating that they were always healthy.

    She was afraid to call the lady and ask if they'd ever been sick or had abscesses. I finally convinced her to call. The woman told Julie that her goats get the abscesses all of the time and she just cleans them out and the goats are fine. I know that CL isn't a death sentence but isn't there some sort of moral obligation to let someone know about a goats health especially when it can spread to someone else's heard? :angry: Okay I'm ranting now!

    My point in all of this is....I never would've thought that a cough would've turned out to be CL. I just feel terrible for her. She just got done selling 7 kids and now she's worried sick about if anything was passed to them.


    Another thing I don't understand was the lady said that your goats don't have to be tested for CL in order to be in the shows here in WA. I of coarse don't know if that's true because I don't show my goats.
     
  2. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    It does sound like Cl but I would get the abscess stuff tested as well as blood tests on her goats just to be sure. Cae can also cause a persistent cough.
     

  3. bheila

    bheila New Member

    644
    Jan 9, 2009
    Kent, Wa
    I went over and helped her while she cut one of the abscesses open(the only abscess that was ready to be cut open). It was exactly what CL is supposed to look like inside, she sent the contents to be tested. With what the seller told her with her other goats having the abscesses all of the time she's pretty positive that's what it is. I also gave her a bunch of blood containers to send their blood in.

    I came home and sanitized like crazy.
     
  4. Thanatos

    Thanatos New Member

    937
    Mar 16, 2009
    Lake Ariel, Pa
    That's just horrible :angry: . I am continually surprised at the way some breeders behave. If you have sick or questionable animals DONT SELL THEM! either treat and then sell or just euthanize if treatment is not an option, but to knowingly sell an animal that is infectious should be criminally liable.
     
  5. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Yeah, I would have to!! Good thing you guys are testing it to be sure. It does sounds like CL, but it's always good to have testing to back it up.

    I'm sorry your friend is going through this. Make sure you guys keep clean after touching those abscesses since CL can spread to people. :hug:

    And Thanatos, this really isn't all that uncommon, the dishonest breeder thing. It's actually becoming more and more common and I've come to the point where I will not buy new goats from people I don't know. If I did the goat would need to be inspected by MY vet and have every test in the world done.
     
  6. Thanatos

    Thanatos New Member

    937
    Mar 16, 2009
    Lake Ariel, Pa
    I guess I will just have to drive to u guys for my breeding needs cause yall are the only trust worthy bunch :greengrin: . BTW my wife and I are gonna start doing the mini-nubians this cycle.
     
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    CL break out in the lympnode (sp) areas
    http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/artic ... nitis.html

    that might be CL
    that one may just be from... giving CD & T vaccination...
    Oh my..... :( ....that is terrible... she didn't warn her....when she knew ....about prior out breaks...and it sounds like it happens quite often...

    Remember though.. not all abcesses are CL ....to be sure... having it tested especially in know CL locations..is good to do.....glad she is having it tested..........

    I am not sure about the coughing though.... :scratch:

    No unfortunately.. they don't ...if they have active and noticable abscesses ... they will be ..sent home.....all show animals have to be healthy looking ....some may carry CL and may not have a break out ..when they are being shown... :hug:
     
  8. bheila

    bheila New Member

    644
    Jan 9, 2009
    Kent, Wa
    We made sure to keep everything as sanitary as possible. Using gloves, bleach, throwing everything away in one bag and we did everything on cement so that way she could bleach the ground. I know once the abscesses are open you can't get it out of the dirt. Her husband used a weed burner on the goat stanchion to burn anything that may have gotten on it.

    She ended up giving the 2 goats to a rescue. I just hope her other goats don't test positive :pray:

    I bought my goats without any tests so last month when I was waiting for the results it was soooo nerve wracking :doh: This has been a lesson well learned for me. Always buy goats who've been tested first.

    toth-All 3 lumps were in the correct areas from the chart we were looking at. I always thought that CL was only in the neck and under the from legs. Not so, it can run on the back of the legs too because they have lymphnodes(sp) there too.
     
  9. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    So glad you guys are being very careful... :hug:
    Oh man... :( .....I pray... that the tests come back negative......... :hug: :pray:
     
  10. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I know lymph nodes are in the armpits of humans but is this also the case for goats as well? i have never heard of CL abcesses in the armpit before. I would like to know more of where you got your information.
     
  11. bheila

    bheila New Member

    644
    Jan 9, 2009
    Kent, Wa
    Stacey-Yes, you are correct. I will post the link for the chart when I get home on my computer and not on my phone.
     
  12. bheila

    bheila New Member

    644
    Jan 9, 2009
    Kent, Wa
  13. grandmajo

    grandmajo New Member

    352
    Oct 14, 2008
    Pioneer, Ohio
    This is really sad, but it will be something that will stick with you as you venture farther into the goat world. And as heartbreaking as it is, you've really learned alot from it. Sounds like you took the necessary precautions when handling the abcess too, good job!

    I don't know if it is dishonesty on the breeders part, or lack of knowledge. Some that I've talked with don't know what CAE or CL is. I've had to learn to ask specific questions before any purchase, (do they test for CAE/CL). It seems like everyone will tell you that they have a healthy herd. My version of healthy is that the all of goats are in good condition (not just the one I'm interested in), the goats' living quarters are clean, hoofs are trimmed, they have written vaccination records and that they have verifiable tests for negative CAE and CL that they can show me from the lab. Their version might be that none of their goats have fallen over dead in the last month.
     
  14. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    grandmajo - that is just it a "healthy herd" does NOT mean a virus free herd. I have said time and time again - I have seen absolutely GORGEOUS animals that have shown positive for CAE or CL. They can be carrying the disease for a long time before anything is noticed.
     
  15. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Just want to point out, that maybe the breeder didnt know that the herd is carrying CL.

    She may have thought that the abcesses she has experienced at just due to injuries, grass seeds etc.
     
  16. grandmajo

    grandmajo New Member

    352
    Oct 14, 2008
    Pioneer, Ohio
    kelebek - I totally agree with you! That's why I now won't buy from someone who doesn't do testing. I realize that tests aren't 100% accurate, but I feel that I'm minimizing my risk by only buying from a tested herd.

    I just had a friend who called me to tell me about one of her friends. The poor woman called her crying, because her wether is going to have to be put down. He looked really good when she first got him but he started having problems after she'd had him for a short time. She took him to the vet, he tested postive for CAE. This woman has dumped tons of money into him in the last couple of years, he's a pet and she loves him. He's now at the point though that he needs to be put down, he's starting to suffer, and this poor gal's heart is breaking. He came from an untested herd.
     
  17. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
    But couldn't it have been possible that he got it after he got home?

    Just because he came from an untested herd doesn't naturally mean he has/or will get it. I am very careful who I buy from. I buy my animals from people who have negative results, who have a clean herd. And I have never tested. I don't test because I don't feel comfortable with doing that for several reasons.

    Anyway, it's different when you look at a farm that you may be buying from and see sick animals. Or from an auction. Those two I am SURE that's where these life threatning diseases come in.

    But please, don't judge herds that don't test without taking a look at them. :)

    And please, everyone, don't take offense to this. I am just stating my opinion. I have nothing against people who do test and who don't. And I am not trying to cause any trouble. I am just saying be careful who you deal with, but yet have an open mind, please. :)
     
  18. grandmajo

    grandmajo New Member

    352
    Oct 14, 2008
    Pioneer, Ohio
    You make a very good point Tara! In most cases I would say that there was a slight possibility, because I have read a few studies that there is a slim chance CAE is passed thru mating. I don't believe that this particular case was because of that, though, not just because he was weathered, but because he was the only goat that was ever on her farm, he was a bought as a pet and companion to her pony or something like that.

    I can definitely see your point, about still looking at a herd even though they didn't test. But I would ask for the tests to be run (at my expense of course), before I would make a purchase.

    Like you, I don't want anyone to be offended or start a big argument, it's just my opinion and way that I've chosen. Everyone has to do what works best for them. :)
     
  19. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Bheila - Has the friend sent off the exodus from the abcess yet? Does she have an ETA on when the results will be back?

    Just checking in!!! :hug:
     
  20. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
    I am glad we agree. :)

    How is everything going? I am :pray: