The Goat Spot Forum banner

1 - 20 of 53 Posts

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So a friend of mine has bought her goats all from a tested cl/ cae herd and just had one get a lesion and had her tested and it came back positive. This is a show goat. We are scratching our heads trying to figure out where her goat picked it up. We are trying to figure out what her options are for the goat. Anyone have any ideas???

Redmuttranch.weebly.com
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
14,615 Posts
If this gal was vaced for CL it's going to come back as a false positve.
Where is the lesion located?
I would also send in another sample to a different lab.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,944 Posts
So a friend of mine has bought her goats all from a tested cl/ cae herd and just had one get a lesion and had her tested and it came back positive. This is a show goat. We are scratching our heads trying to figure out where her goat picked it up. We are trying to figure out what her options are for the goat. Anyone have any ideas???

Redmuttranch.weebly.com
The CL vaccine for sheep is only about 85% effective, and the new goat CL vaccine is too new to know what its effectiveness is. Testing for CL is not 100% accurate, according to what I've read, and it's possible that this goat was a false negative. It is also very possible that the goat picked it up at a show since the bacteria can live in the soil and environment for a year or more. As far as options, if treated properly the goat could very well never develop another abscess and can continue her show career with no problems. She will always be CL positive, however, and care should be taken to make sure she does not infect other goats with the bacteria.
 

·
Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
Joined
·
4,956 Posts
Its unethical to take that doe back into an area with peoples negative goats. There are other ways other then an open abscess CL can be passed to clean goats. Thus Id suspect is how you got it. From some piece of chit who had no care for other peoples goats.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,604 Posts
The tests are scientific and are what they are. Titers and bacteria count are what they are. It's in the interpreting that there are issues unless the lab used was less then reputable. That said. If it was a pus culture test done by a reputable lab, then I would tend to believe them.

If you keep the serology test up to date running it first 3-4 weeks apart and then every 6 months, you'll be able to know if it's worsening or if there are internal abscesses which at that point its a serious issue. So IMO, I would get the serology test done to find out what the titer count is and how bad the CL is in the system.

It's fairly easy for a goat to pick up CL at a fair - it has an incubation time of 2 months up to 2 years. Any unethical person could have brought their goat to a fair with an open abscess or internal CL that was being coughed up and left it on to surfaces where it lives somewhere from 5 months to 2 years (WSU says 5 months, popular opinion is 2 years) - at which point your goat may have licked that surface or gotten it in to their nose or eyes or scratched themselves on it and gotten that into their blood stream.

Because of the method of transmission its unethical to take that goat back out to show.

The vaccine on a pos goat will help prevent that animal from having further outbreaks. it won't stop the outbreaks but will lessen the number they will have.

There is a long thread here on CL that has a lot of options and oodles of information from a bunch of members.
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/cl-discussion-150100/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,319 Posts
its unethical to take that doe back into an area with peoples negative goats. There are other ways other then an open abscess cl can be passed to clean goats. Thus id suspect is how you got it. From some piece of chit who had no care for other peoples goats.
we have show goats and have everything tested yearly we also use the guidelines for scrapie prevention as put out by the usda. We have the solid partitions between our goatpens and the other herds goatpens. Everybody thinks we are crazy. Obviously they do not know what the usda guidelines are. But everybody has scrapie tatoos or tags, BUT OBVIOUSLY THEY DONT KNOW WHY OR EVEN WHAT SCRAPIE IS. These guidelines work for other diseases as well. We try to get the same pens each year. I am sure that tdg is right that somebody didnt care.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,319 Posts
the cl vaccine for sheep is only about 85% effective, and the new goat cl vaccine is too new to know what its effectiveness is. Testing for cl is not 100% accurate, according to what i've read, and it's possible that this goat was a false negative. It is also very possible that the goat picked it up at a show since the bacteria can live in the soil and environment for a year or more. As far as options, if treated properly the goat could very well never develop another abscess and can continue her show career with no problems. She will always be cl positive, however, and care should be taken to make sure she does not infect other goats with the bacteria.
the goat had a positive lesion? You can test it again but once it is established that she is positive i cant see a vet ever giving her health papers for a show and it horrifying that anyone would entertain the thoght of showing her again, you will have to test your entire herd and hope she hasnt passed it on. I think she doesnt have much future or at least ehe wouldnt have a future in my herd. Thats just the way i feel about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,920 Posts
As with a few of the others I would like to know if the positive result was from a pus test or blood. If it was a pus test then yes the goat could have came back with a false neg blood test before or it could have picked it up at a show. Even the highly level of bio-security can pick up nasty things. One thing people do not think about it disinfecting hooves. If your goat walks out of your safe clean show pen and walks around the ring and through other areas and then back into there safe pen without disinfecting the hooves then those nasty things can walk straight into your safe area. If they had been tested positive by a blood test and had received the vaccination then you would really need to run a PCR titer to verify the findings.

Where was the spot located? Some times goats can get foreign bodies (splinters, tick bites, etc) or have vaccine reactions sites that can appear to be something they are not.

The way you stated your sentence makes it sound like it was the pus that was tested on this goat. If so I am sorry. In my opinion I would not show this goat again even if it gets under control because I would not want someone else to have their goats exposed. With that being said I also want to point out I don't consider it being a death sentence either for the goat. I would hate to see a nice animal that can still live a happy life be destroyed due to being labeled with a stigma. There are a larger number of people out there that would be willing to house a positive goat with others that have been id as positive. Or practice extreme QT measures at home and have the whole herd PCR titer tested. Sad thing is if there is one true positive you probably will have others in the herd now positive either from the same show exposure or from prior false neg testing.

Speak to your state lab for options for testing and your local vet for more information.

Hope this helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
There's been good replys. I know for me it's one of the reasons I hesitate to show next year- I'll do milk test and LA's. Due to the small number of animals I have I would have to part ways with a positive animal, not allow any goats to come or go for a year and test twice during that year. Like I said that would be just me, everyone has different opinions on that. Sorry that they are dealing with it. I use WADDL for my testing and they have quite a bit of information on their site as well.
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It was a blood serum test that was done but she had an active bump that never burst till it was lanced and drained and cleaned at the vets office. The vet said her cl is the internal type. What my friend is trying to figure out is what are the chances her other four goats that were in the same pen have it and what is the chance that her other goats in a pen about 75 feet away could have it?

The goat is question is not going to be taken to any shows anymore an if unable to find a responsible person that understands the disease to take her, she will be euthanized and properly disposed of. Her owners are being really responsible.

She has her separated and we are drawing blood tomorrow on her whole herd of 16 and sending it to the lab. It's gonna be expensive but she doesn't want to have any doubts in her mind. But what are the probability of any other goats on her property having it?

Redmuttranch.weebly.com
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,546 Posts
I would be testing the whole herd if she got a CL+ test result. Be sure to retest because the blood tests aren't always that accurate. A test of the abscess would be much more accurate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,319 Posts
well. i would say that the ones in the same pen would be at high risk, the ones 75 feet away not somuch unless they were ever in contact with her. i agree with the course of action the owners are taking. it's heart breaking but responsible.
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
1,524 Posts
I would not condem an animal on a blood test for CL. I would only condem one from a test on the abcess pus. The blood test is not accurate enough, only the pus one is accurate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,604 Posts
lottsagoats, If a goat has over 1:256 as a result in the titers, that does indicate internal abscesses and should be considered a definite positive. If the vet says the goat has internal abscesses then that must have been the result but should always check to see what the titers result was.
 

·
Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
Joined
·
4,956 Posts
Totally agree Amy. Internal abscess are just as dangerous and should be taken into account. This is why we had such a hard line stance against CL. Its ability to be spread in several ways makes it to risky to try and work around. Thus why we refused to bring any positive animal with us onto our new piece of property. And as heart breaking as it sounds, if one ever did happen to show up with an abscess, she would be sent to the sales. Our goats are our babies but we are not willing to risk them all for the love of one.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,944 Posts
the goat had a positive lesion? You can test it again but once it is established that she is positive i cant see a vet ever giving her health papers for a show and it horrifying that anyone would entertain the thoght of showing her again, you will have to test your entire herd and hope she hasnt passed it on. I think she doesnt have much future or at least ehe wouldnt have a future in my herd. Thats just the way i feel about it.
Perhaps you could show me where the original poster stated that the pus from the abscess was tested and it came back positive? The poster stated that the goat had been tested, NOT the abscess. There are a lot of things that can cause a goat to test positive for CL - vaccination being one of them - when they are, in fact, negative. As for the way you feel - last time I checked it was a free world and you are entitled to your opinion, however, that does not mean that I have to agree with it.
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I'm the original poster. The pus as far as I know was not tested. It was a blood test came back 1.256 + and the vet determined it internal. :( I totally feel for them but I am trying to pick your brains about wether or not she should be concerned about the goats that are in a pen about 75 feet away and what the probability of the goats kept in close contact with the infected goat being infected as well. We are drawing blood in the morning on the whole herd of 16 and sending it to the lab ASAP. It's quite expensive but we feel it is necessary just to be sure. Such a sad situation but I am so proud of her for taking such immediate responsible measures.

Redmuttranch.weebly.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,212 Posts
I'm the original poster. The pus as far as I know was not tested. It was a blood test came back 1.256 + and the vet determined it internal. :( I totally feel for them but I am trying to pick your brains about wether or not she should be concerned about the goats that are in a pen about 75 feet away and what the probability of the goats kept in close contact with the infected goat being infected as well. We are drawing blood in the morning on the whole herd of 16 and sending it to the lab ASAP. It's quite expensive but we feel it is necessary just to be sure. Such a sad situation but I am so proud of her for taking such immediate responsible measures.

Redmuttranch.weebly.com
The goats kept in close proximity are at a significantly elevated risk of having CL. Does she have a cough? What is the likelihood that a prior abscess went unnoticed and burst? If no cough and unlikely prior abscess then there is a better chance for her companions, though it is still a high risk situation.

The goats kept away from her have a much better chance of escaping CL. Burst abscess would make it easier to transmit the infection to the secondary pen, as would a cough that could spread the germs to yer hands or boots. If no cough or prior abscess, though, then they have a good chance of coming away unscathed.

At least that's what I've read. Hope that helps! Good luck to your friend.
 
1 - 20 of 53 Posts
Top