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Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Candy, Oct 26, 2008.
Is the CL toxoid Ok for goats? Any body use it on a reg. basis?
I have heard of one, but can't remember the company-I believe it was $80 + they took samples from your herd. It ended up being about $400 start up-then you just order the $80 dosage when you needed it. :shrug:
Colorado Serum makes a vaccine called Caseous D-T that is supposed to prevent CL but it is marketed for sheep....not sure if it's safe or effective with goats...so yeah, I'd also be interested to hear if anyone has used this for goats....
The Colorado -- I saw it listed at Jeffers-- that's the one I was asking about. So much of what we use on our goaties is off-label and I just got to wondering about this.
Problem with the CL vaccine is that when tested after the vaccine the goat will always test positive for CL. If you ever sell the goat and later on down the line people didn't know she was vaccinated and had her test positive they might put her down thinking she has CL. Health records don't always travel down the road with the goat. I personally won't buy a goat that has been vaccinated with CL....cause you will just never know if she really has it or not.
Good thought Tonya. I never gave that a thought. Now my little brain has to work overtime. :scratch: Should you test once a yr? Or just assume because you have never had any symptoms that you are OK?
It is best to do a yearly test. If you wait till they start showing signs then it might be to late to do anything vs. if you caatch it earlier. :shrug:
Testing for Cl is a good thing initially...and wether or not it is "caught early" has no bearing on the disease....Cl is not curable once it's contracted. I have see the Colorado Serum Co. Cl vaccine...labeled for sheep but has been used in goats with success, but once you start vaccinating with it to prevent the disease it will show up as a positive with testing. I do think that further reading on it would be a good idea, then we would know for sure.
The Case-Bac that Colorado Serum makes, the ONLY thing that made it not labeled for goats was the fact that there were too many injection site reactions fo the FDA to approve it's use in goats. Swelling, lumps, abcesses as well as short period lameness were all reported when used on goats.
I thought that didn't sound right after I posted it.Oh well I already made a fool of myself. But if they could spread it you would want catch it and make sure the others didn't contract it.
I have lots of info on all of that - but I am on my way out to upload my new girls.....
Give me a little bit - but yes, I do vaccinate for CL - and I will let you know what my protocal is and what I have done!!!
Ok - here is what I do. Every person who wants to or has purchased from me, I explain my herd management to them, the possibility of the kids coming back with positive bloodtests because of mom being vaccinated, why I vaccinate, and offer copies of all medical records, and I have had more people want to buy from me because I care so much to go through what I do. It is actually neat AND they are referring friends to me!
So when I first started. I did a round of blood testing for CL. All negative. 45 days later, another round (gestation for CL is 30-45 days). All Negative. THEN I vaccinate.
All new goats - I draw blood from where they are or have the owner draw and send in. If they come back negative. Then I pick them up, bring them home, vaccinate and then place with the herd. But ONLY after vaccinating.
I use the sheep vaccine at the moment, as I am having one made for me. The problem with having one made, is that you have to have a goat that has had CL or know of someone that has an isolate on standby at the lab. I will vaccinate from the isolate when it comes in as it is the most prominent strain in my area, where the regular vaccine hits the most common strains in the US. kind of like a flu vaccine.
If you have any questions - please ask me.
CL is kind of my hot topic and I have done so much research on it it is crazy. It is one of those things that is not hugely publicized - but it is becoming more and more of a reality!
I have used the Colorado Serum Caseous DT on my goats and like other vaccines have decided that I and they can live without it. Years ago now I had a rescue goat that I first had tested for everything under the sun before I would even allow it on my place. She was kept at a friend's house for several months, separated from any and all goats. All the test results came back that this goat was clean. After bringing her home I kept her in a separate pen for over a month just to make sure that she didn't bring anything into my herd. Shortly after I moved her in with my does, after all the testing and waiting, she developed an abscess at the site of her vaccination injection. Two other goats that were original to my herd but were now in the same pen with her also developed abscesses in different areas of their bodies. Concerned, I had the vet come out and culture everything. The rescue goat's abscess came back as CL mixed with Staph. One of the other goats came back with staph and the other was just plain old bodily fluid built up. On my vets advice I vaccinated everyone (even the one with the CL abscess, but not til after her abscess had been drained and cleaned by the vet and didn't come back) according to the instructions. Then I had someone who wanted to buy that rescue goat. I explained her condition to them and they said they didn't care, they still wanted her. She is still with them and has never had another abscess. She's healthy and has kidded successfully every year since then.
After a couple of years I decided to quit the CL vaccine since my goats were never exposed to anyone else's goats at that time. I have not had any more problems with CL.
When I bought my first two goats, one came with a terrible case of CL. I vaccinated with the autogenuious vaccine becasue one was tested negative. The one who was positive was pregnant- I pulled her doeling at birth and vaccinated her too.
After a couple of times, the original positive doe was not on site anymore and I had never had an abscess drain on my place so I decided to stop the vaccinations. Since then the one doe who was negative has been negative every time and the doeling who was vaccinated at 6 mos old has had no readable levels of antibodies but she does show some reaction. In otherwords, the older doe has never shown any thing to indicate she ever had a shot- the younger one, who had the shots longer, shows a level that is so low that it could be a statistical error.
So it is not true that you can't tell the difference between the antibodies due to the shot or due to the disease. The level of antibodies with the vaccine drops sharply within a few months- to a non-reactive level on the doe who just got two shots and to the doeling who was vaccinated as a kid for a year and a half to a level that is lower than the test can read as an indication of positive.
It is not the same reading as a positive goat.