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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For those of you who do regular coccidia prevention, what ages do you treat at? I've never needed it before but it's become a problem, and I have several kids this year who are behind because of it. They started showing minor symptoms before they were old enough to shed so I didn't treat them since I wasn't sure that was what it was, but by the time the oocysts showed up on fecals they were significantly worse. I treated with 5 day protocol of 40% sulfamed (dimethox) and they all cleared up, but I'm worried they might have permanent damage 馃槙 I'm pretty sure one from last year does who was also treated when she became symptomatic. I'm not up for doing repeated five day courses on the entire kid crop so I got some Zuricox (toltrazuril) and dosed all of them, including those who'd had the sulfa previously. So far my younger kids who were born after the others had been treated and had their first dose at a couple weeks old are looking good. Last three kids for the year were born this week. I was thinking something along the lines of two weeks, four weeks, eight weeks, and twelve/weaning - or is that too much? I dosed all of them with fresh cud probiotics the day after so that should keep their rumen healthy, and the Zuricox doesn't seem taste nearly as bad as sulfa so they didn't hate me for it 馃憣 Cost is sure going to rack up doing that much, but if that's what it takes to keeps kids healthy it is what it is.

I'd say "pic for attention" but I don't think it works that way here, so "pic just because" of a fat, healthy, treated 3 week old 馃槉

Vertebrate Mammal Working animal Terrestrial animal Fawn
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
We start prevention at 10 days to 3 weeks old. Depends on how wet or humid things are. With toltrazuril....repeated doses are not usually needed. I do once..and only booster when I see a need or fecal or after a big stressor like banding or going to a new home, since stress can cause a bloom. If you are treating an active case it's dosed then booster in10 days. Some years I only need the one dose while others I had to do 3 or 4 times before weening age. Last few years the inevitable dose has been enough. We also have kids on herbs weekly which helps.

Best wishes
You're not concerned that they might pick it back up from adults? I can't do fecals on a constant basis, and I want to head it off before they're symptomatic. I am keeping an eye out when I do adult fecals to see if there are any high shedders that might be causing it but nothing so far.

We are VERY wet here, and usually mild temps. I'm trying to move my kidding earlier when there's more likely to be cold snaps to kill things off but my does tend not to cooperate. I'm going to try lute synching them this year. They're on herbs too but it doesn't seem to have had any effect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I start my preventative at 10 days old. I use Corid but am going switch next kidding season. When they hit 4 weeks I do another and then one more treatment at weaning. This is only for the kids I keep. For kids I sell I give them treatment at 10 days old then right before they leave or send the new owner home with the meds to give it their self.
Are you selling them on the bottle? Most of mine are dam raised and stay until 3+ months.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What kind of herbs do you use to help prevent?
I鈥檓 really pretty dry over here, so haven鈥檛 seen an issue as of yet, but I鈥檇 like to know what herbs in case. Are we mainly just keeping immune system boosted?
I'm using Molly's program, but considering switching to Fir Meadows. Parasites are extremely bad here and while I have seen efficacy from Molly's against worms I'm thinking it might just not be strong enough. On top of the coccidia I've had severe cases of barberpole, ostertagia, lungworms, and tapeworms (yes, to clinical levels.) Possibly others than I haven't diagnosed yet 馃槙 Herbs are better used as a preventative given regularly rather than for treatment of active blooms. I use both those and conventional treatments - anything that works. I started the kids on herbs at a couple weeks old and obviously it wasn't enough to stop coccidia. Molly's recommendation was three days of double dose formula #1 followed by the same with #2, but I have to drench mine with it mixed with applesauce to get it down them and there's no way I could do that much. They hate me after even one dose!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I dam raise and am in a very wet climate. I did 40% sulfamed at three weeks and then again 21 days later. I'll be doing a fecal tomorrow to see if they need it again. They've been weaned now for a few weeks. I couldn't find much info on using 40% sulfamed, so I sort of just had to guess.
There's dosage info online. Varies slightly based on who it comes from (nothing official) but I did 1cc/5lb day one and 1cc/10lb day 2-5, which works out to roughly the same amount of active ingredient as the 12.5% dosing. Scours cleared up within the first couple days and fecals have been clean (done before they got zuricox). Make sure you always follow up with probiotics. My vet said she doesn't think much of Probios, so I've switched to always using cud based so that it's fresh bugs local to your feeding program and microenvironment. I've been brewing them so I don't have to risk my fingers to grab a new cud every time - plus it's easier to get down them as liquid than solid fibers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I did that dosage. I didn't do probiotics after, which I probably will do now that you mentioned it. What I couldn't find was how often to repeat treatment for preventative measures.
Yeah, I don't think there's a standard for it which is why I came here for opinions. I've been running my own fecals for seven years and never seen more than the occasional 1-2 oocysts in adults. I swear this property is toxic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Clove is most common, oregano is said to reduce the load, garlic of course...also digestion soothing herbs such as ginger, Slippery elm (which is a bark) all support the system.
It looks like garlic is the only one of those that either of Molly's formulas contains. GI soothers seem like a good idea too, considering how damaging coccidia is. That's one thing I'd been reading about Fir Meadows, because I tend to get clumpy poops the day after I give Molly's. I'm guessing the herbs themselves may be slightly irritating so adding soother could help counter that. I'll look over LOH's formula too and keep coccidia in mind for deciding which way to go. I'm still leery of using wormwood too often or in pregnant animals, so I may end up buying two different formulas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I remember some years ago it was explained why to give everything 3 weeks. Something along the lines of treating it at the treatable stage but before it starts to cause damage to the intestines. Im pretty sure it was @goathiker that took the time to write it all up on here but I can鈥檛 find it.
But anyways I have been treating at 3 and 6 weeks, by then they are usually eating their medicated grain pretty good so I just keep a eye on any signs which 90% are usually good from then on. This year though with such wonky weather I went ahead and treated them again at weaning
Not a professional here or anything but I鈥檓 going to say no. I remember years ago I fed a medicated cattle feed and it did crap for the kids but I looked and can鈥檛 find the feed I was feeding. But I looked up the bovetech and this is what it says:

So from my understanding when I was looking into why the feed didn鈥檛 work years ago is as we know cattle cocci and goat cocci can鈥檛 cross to other species, and that鈥檚 because although both are cocci, they are different cocci.
If someone is reading this and that is totally wrong you are more then welcome to correct me!
Also the thing with forcing the medicated in feeds, minerals, and water is you have to make sure the animal consumes the proper amount. Water as we know on cold days they don鈥檛 consume as much as they might possibly should, minerals they pick at it here or there but some days won鈥檛 touch it, the feed, how I do it is they have free choice creep feeder and I don鈥檛 stop the prevention treatment until they are REALLY digging into it. But even then I have still had a handful over the years that have needed to be treated so it鈥檚 not totally guaranteed that it will keep cocci at bay.
The life cycle for coccidia is 3 weeks (longer for worms) so that makes sense. If I do my first treatment at 2 weeks any that they've already picked up wouldn't have had time to start multiplying though. Any refugia could start reproducing by the next week, but assuming that's very few (I had zero on post-treatment fecals, and I ran them at high concentration) then follow-up treatments would be for new ones they ingested post-treatment which would set the clock back to 5 weeks. I could do those two dates and spot check at 8 weeks to decide whether to do an additional dose then. I'll probably still do another at weaning to be safe, especially for smaller kids that would still be more vulnerable. That's also when worms start ramping up so I don't want them getting hit on both fronts.

I don't subscribe to medicated feed - not only may it be ineffective, but constant low doses increases resistance. That's why the majority of feed/water through meds went VFD, because that resistance applies to any organism that's affected by the medication even if it's not the target and can impact other species as well. Plus it prevents their own immune system from developing in response to normal exposures. IMHO that's more likely to be the reason cattle feed wouldn't work. Most medications are multi species and often treat multiple conditions; I doubt the additive only targets one exact type of coccidia. But the concentration is formulated for cattle which could be completely inadequate for goats.
Tl;dr I only treat individual animals as needed with accurate dosing.

This is also the first year I've started giving any concentrated feed in an effort to counteract the setback from coccidia. The ones who were already badly affected before treatment are still small but improving, and growth has picked up on the rest. They start nibbling at it at a couple weeks old, and all of the kids born after I treated are growing like gangbusters. My late kids have never performed well in the past; I don't think it's just the feed since several of them aren't eating a significant amount yet (including the fastest-growing), which makes me wonder if they've had subclinical infections that I missed without the symptoms tip me off :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
We do Zuricox 3w, 6w, 9w, 12w. Along with Equimax at 3w and 12w as we deal with tapes here. Sometimes I might skip one dose depending on weather or the animal itself. I have some that don't seem to need any interventions. We use LOH herbals as prevention in between. After the 12w it's only if I see issues, I do a fecal and will treat if necessary, or if a particularly wet season.
I have tapes here too - which are usually considered to be not worth treating because they don't actually attack the animal itself and generally do little harm, but last year I had a weanling dump an ENORMOUS load of them after a dose of herbs - poop chock full of them for two weeks!! I don't know how it managed to get that bad so quickly but I can't imagine that it was benign. Her look improved and she started gaining weight. She was also one who'd been affected by coccidia so she was already vulnerable, and with all my other parasites I don't need any comorbidities. However, I rely on ivermectin to treat strongyles, and dosing it frequently increases resistance, so I've been using safeguard for the tapes (which has so much strongyle resistance already that I don't expect it to be useful for them.) I know from that doeling that the herbs do kill them (and it was only the milder #2 formula) but I want to cover my bases. And I'm still not dosing that on a set schedule - only the herbs regularly; I add the safeguard for any that are looking rough or have them on fecals. Three-way dosing with ivomec for ones that are in worse shape/low FAMACHA, high strongyle FEC, or have lungworms (nasty buggers.)

I'm not too worried about coccidia post-weaning - it usually strikes young; by that point they've either built up resistance or the damage is already done. I've never seen any significant number of oocysts in older animals, nor the telltale scours. Just worms; lots of worms. Hopefully knocking out the coccidia will help them be less susceptible to those. I also wean by taping teats to minimize stress and don't separate until the does go into breeding pens, by which point the kids are pretty well over it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
And I hate to say, that garlic in dried format doesn't do much. Garlic needs to be fresh to do it's thing. I can't remember what the compound in it is called, but I recall @NigerianDwarfOwner707, talking about that fact.
Did some looking and that doesn't seem to be true. Freezing and cooking do damage it, but various dried forms appear to still have good efficacy. (The range of studies on overall efficacy is amusing - from useless to miracle cure and everything in between :LOL: )
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 · (Edited)
Wow. That's great to know. Thanks for looking into that. :)
I asked my dad too who's an herbalist and I'm waiting to hear back, but that study seems pretty reliable. According to another (older) study it doesn't appear to actually kill adult worms but disrupts the hatching process - the animals were still shedding, but further testing a few days later showed dead eggs and no larvae. If that's accurate it's more effective at reducing spreading than treating the actual animal. I'd never rely on garlic as a solo treatment but it seems to be a standard ingredient in any wormer formula, and I don't think so many experienced herbalists would throw it in without good evidence that it's useful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
I've been digging into research for anything that might heal the damage done by coccidia and found a couple things that might be useful, without risk:

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/bartell_shoshana_m_200605_ms.pdf
Improved GI development AND protection against coccidia. Chicks, but very promising
http://cyxb.magtech.com.cn/EN/10.11686/cyxb20140436
Less relevant, but shows that it does have positive results with goats. Available as cheap OTC supplement.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6443889/
Also chickens, but specifically shown to help repair damage so the intestines can return to proper function. Readily available from brassicas, which they happen to love! And supplement form, but brassicas have other nutritional benefits as well, and I was just looking into ordering seeds for my fields. Easy enough to buy some for kids to munch on in the meantime.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19490976.2021.1921926
Compares the content and benefits of various brassicas. DIM was specifically mentioned in the previous study, so brussels sprouts or kale are probably the top choice.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcimb.2021.751481/full
Long read and some of it's over my head, but excellent information. Not sure how much they would help with long term recovery, but this shows just how important probiotics are to coccidia treatment - not just to make up for the antibiotic treatment. Giving that treatment plus following up with fresh cud probiotics essentially resets the gut flora to allow beneficial strains to proliferate, rather than the pathogenic species that are symbiotic with coccidia.
My vet told me that she doesn't put much stock in Probios since it's only a few generic strains and always uses cud transplants for any GI problems. Rather than risk my fingers every time I've started brewing them with great results. Cud + molasses + hay pellets (they feed on fiber) in a bottle filled with water and set in a warm area. This way they're immediately available and can be drenched rather than trying to shove a wad down their throat. After reading this I added some of it to the water bucket in the kids' creep stall, along with some extra molasses for taste. I might do peppermint too since they really aren't fond of any cud that's not their own, but someone has drank some since I added it so must not be too bad. If nothing else it'll ensure their rumens are in top shape and food is thoroughly broken down by the time it reaches the intestines to make the nutrients as bioavailable as possible.
 
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