complete aggravation!

Discussion in 'Mini Mania' started by SDK, Nov 18, 2008.

  1. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    oh my gosh

    found out why i haven't been able to sell my stock.. there are 35 ads around where i live for "breeding quality" goats

    i.e. mutts with balls

    and they are asking 60 a pair , or 45 each or 50 each and i eve nsaw one for a "purebred" boer buck for 100 dollars

    and i had a lady email me today for a breeding service, and i told her all the stuff she had to do before the goat could come( health tests CAE CL ect) and she goes.. but its just a pet.

    so i then explain to her i have thousands of dollars invested into this and i cannot risk breeding to someones pet goat and losing everything..

    she then replies that she would do the health tests and such because she understands as a breeder of labs, and then asked me to sell her a pet quality buck kid in the spring with no papers for cheap.

    so i just sent one back saying i don't keep anything intact that ii wouldn't use in my herd, and that a pet quality buck is not an option. lets see what she says

    soo aggravated

    this week is bad for me.. yesterday i found one of my pullets decapitated in a water bucket.. i guess she escaped and the hawk or something got her
  2. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    sorry your going through all of this, must be really aggravating!

  3. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I have that happen alot to - where they want unregistered "bucks". I will admit, I sold one - but she breeds pygmy, he was a 2 day old bottle baby, and she had him wethered later on!
  4. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Gosh, that sucks.

    Every goat is breeding quality in some peoples eyes.... aahhhggg :angry: and a lot of goat people think every doe is worth breeding year after year. I can't stand to see people selling intact crappy unregistered bucks/bucklings....drives me nuts. And people do it all the time! I do have to admit....I sold one unregistered purebred buckling this year to a friend....he was NICE and out of a registered parent so I figured I would let him go.
  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    SDK...I really hate competing against those ads to....people rather get goats for free or next to nothing...that really does suck... :( ..It's just bad timing....
    as for the are so right ...if she doesn't want to go by your rules .......she can just go get one the auction I would say..... :)

    Katrina .... :shades: ..I see your North Star Boer Goats ...when will you be able to change the title on your website...? :)
  6. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    dont know yet, havent checked it out....

    but yeah, people sell goats that arent worth breeding every day. kinda sad, that theyre not really improving the breed standard.
  7. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    i wouldn't have a problem selling a really nice unregistered buck, but thats not the case

    she wants a PET QUALITY buck. to breed.. some smart lab breeder she is
  8. jordan

    jordan Fall Creek Farm

    Nov 22, 2007
    Boy, am I with you on that!!! Makes me even crazier when they sell crappy, intact registered bucklings! :hair:
    I also made the collasal mistake of selling a buckling once whose dam didn't have what I considered a great udder even though the genetics were there (her sister had a really nice udder) to someone I know. She had been bred to a buck who did have great udder genetics so the buckling had potential. This buckling was way to cute for words, unbelievable conformation (has won numerous grands and reserves in the show ring) and wild markings, but in my book, his dam's udder painted wether on his head. Long story short, she talked me into selling him intact, I did it with the verbal aggreement that she wether any bucks out him until such time as she has seen numerous daughters freshen. She agreed, but has since told others that she will sell bucks out him and that he belongs to her now and that I have no right to dictate what she does with him :veryangry: Luckily, he's only produced does so far...

    Lessons learned! I should have sold him on contract and I will NEVER again sell a buckling whose dam does not have an excellent udder regardless of his potential.

  9. rebelshope

    rebelshope New Member

    Sep 20, 2008
    I think it is really great that you are sticking to your standards. It is difficult but there are people out there that don't care about what they sell and those that don't care about what they buy, you can sleep better at night knowing that you aren't one of them. Also that you are supply good quality goats for people who want them. I hope there are more around you that do.

    I am sorry that you are having a hard time selling your stock, but there are folks out there that do want good quality stock and they are going to be looking for you. Thinking of it this way. That other breeder has to sell six goats for every one doe, or two to three bucks for every one buck or weather you sell in order to roughly make the same amount of money.

    I really do hope that things pick up for you.
  10. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    I wouldnt argue with her and make an issue of the pet quality. Tell her that you only sell registered bucks and then only those that you would use yourself.

    I have sold unregisterd bucks intact and I have sold registered bucks intact ...... that almighty dollar is more important sometimes when you NEED the money and they are willing to pay your price. Call me an aweful bad breeder and how could you, but sometimes putting food in the goats mouths is important!
  11. FunnyRiverFarm

    FunnyRiverFarm New Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    Hudson, MI
    SDK--I can see why you'd be frustrated...and I'm very sorry about your little chicky... :(

    All I can really say is...Try to do whatever you can to educate people...many have the mind set that a "goat is a goat" because they just don't know any better. If someone thinks that all goats are the same, of course they're going to try to buy the least expensive one they can find. If a buyer can see what sets your goats apart from the others and how they can benefit from it, it will be easier for them to justify spending the extra money.

    Of course, there will always be some who just want the cheapest goat they can find, no matter what the quality is...but I think, in general, if potential buyers knew more about health, conformation, production, etc. they'd be willing to spend the money to buy higher quality animals and strive to produce them.

    When I had goats before, I used to make really nice flyers with good conformation pics and points basically explaining why the goats were worth the money I was asking for. I hung them up locally and gave some to friends/family to hang up where they lived. A lot of people I talked to didn't even realize that there were goat shows outside of the county fair! They had no idea of the quality of animals available...before I informed them of these things...they probably would have settled for any goat.

    It worked pretty well--I always found homes for my goaties...of course, that was a few years ago when the economy wasn't as messed up... :cry:
  12. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    I dont sell registered bucks as nothing that i wouldnt keep myself, as the buck carries my herd name, he can be traced back to me. I am breeding for quality not quantity. i will sell a decent un registered buck, as none of my does are of poor quality.
    But i really get sick of the people that want cheap does. The first thing i ask when people come to look is how much are they willing to spend. That way i can get an idea, then i explain to them thats its definatly worth it to pay a little more to get the quality of a nicer animal. They will have longer years of lactation more kids easier kiddings and less vet bills. Most people do understand this after i explain it. I dont charge an arm and a leg for my animals, as of now my milkers are between one fifty and three hundred depending on how they turn out. Kids tend to run two fifty to three hundred, as i would liek to think that with the quality of bucks im using they are an improvement over their dam. But for the most part i have weeded out my stock that is nice but nothing special.
  13. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    i told her i wouldn't sell any buck intact unless i was willing to use him with my own animals

    i then offered her my two wethers to keep the goat company, since she is by herself
  14. Laurel_Haven

    Laurel_Haven New Member

    Oct 19, 2007
    South Carolina
    I do understand what you are saying, but if you are having a hard time selling goats at the moment, why turn down this woman’s reservation for a buckling? Couldn’t you sell her a quality buckling, and my definition of quality is (great genetics, great conformation, & dam has exceptional udder) at a reduced price without papers so she could use him as a ‘pet quality‘ buckling ? Just because she is asking for “pet quality’ doesn’t mean you have to sell her an awful buck from a dam with poor genetics or udder. Just a bit cheaper without papers. :shrug:

    I am going to be completely honest here… This is just the standards I go by within my own herd, not saying anyone else’s way is wrong… just may be different than mine.
    IMO not every doe that kids is worthy of producing “bucks” and not every buck born should stay intact. Only a select few in my opinion. We as breeders are to be breeding for improvement in the breed and how can that be done if we don’t weed out the faults. I would never sell a buckling from my herd with papers that does not come from an exceptional milker with an exceptional udder and genetics as that buck will carry my herd name so he MUST be something I would be proud to sell or something I would use in my own herd. Otherwise he would be wethered.

    But the problem I have is I wind up with buckling that are all that and should remain intact to become future herdsires, but wind up being wethered each season because I don’t get enough sales for bucks as I do does or wethers… But I can make more money selling a buck kid of quality that should be a “buck“ (great genetics, great conformation, & dam has exceptional udder) without papers as a “pet” than I can as a wether. Out of 12 males born, only 3 were sold as bucks the other 9 were wethered. And I would have loved to see at least 3 more of them be sold as bucks with or without papers, I regretted wethering them, but at 8 weeks old all bucks that do not sell by then are wethered regardless of quality.

    So I would sell a buck as a pet without papers at a price less than a registerable buck but more than a wether to someone that don‘t have registered does yet wants to breed their does for milk. So couldn’t you leave a buck intact that you otherwise would anyway and just sell him cheaper without papers but more than you would if he was a wether? That is unless you have no problem selling every buck every season. :dance:
  15. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    the issue i have with selling her a buck is . she's obviously going to breed her goats, and just cause me more issues with sales down the road, and i think if your going to breed, you should breed for a purpose, not just to have cute babies and make a quick buck

    that and i'm big on culling bucks heavy, i think im the last six years there's only been 3 kids i thought were buck quality, and i wethered two and gave one to a friend who couldn't afford to buy one. and i've already gotten two reservations for buck kids in the spring from other local breeders and i've only got three does kidding, one of which i would not consider keeping any bucks out of. and the only issue i have with money is i need my boers to go, the 5 of them eat 3 x more than the 13 nigerians. if they were gone it wouldn't be any trouble
  16. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I agree are 100% right on that issue... :thumbup:
  17. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    SDK and Laurel - I understand where both of you are coming from. I typically wether 99% of the boys also that are born here either because they are not of quality or because they are purchased as wethers. However, Laurel has a great point. What if they want a buck to be able to reproduce for milk consumption? Some do not want to have to take their girls to someone else's home to be bred and it is easier for them to have their own buck on site for rotation breeding.

    SDK - it is completely up to you if you wanted to sell a buckling as unregistered - but I doubt that it would effect the market for selling your goaties later on. I would find out what her intentions are. You never know - it might be something that could benefit you both :) Just a thought.

    If I have a kid born that I don't care if it is sold with or without papers - I give that option of purchasing without papers with option to purchase papers within 1 year for an additional price. Alot of times people can not afford the "registered" price off of the bat, but will come for the papers in a couple months.
  18. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    i to am big on culling bucks. i have a single buck with my herd name on him and thats simply because i was holding him intact for someone to use as a cart goat. they were going to have him surgically whethered after he grew to be a pretty good size. he bred one of my does through the fence. Harmony kidded with the only doe that spring. It was a given i would keep her. that was the only reason that boy got registered. He actually put out a nice doe kid. And i still have several going back to him.
    But needless to say i havnt kept anymore. We do have one from last spring that we are debating on useing but we are waiting if not he will go in the freezer.
    But there are people out there that dont show, and for them one of your pet quality buck kids may be a huge improvement over the srock that they have. You dont have to have a buck out os a SGCH doe thats a 5* milker to make imporvements. And some people want improvements in other areas, like milk production, maybe her does have toes that splay out and one of your buck kids couple help to improve can only improve so much in one generation.
  19. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Thank goodness I only have a small herd! I know I have pets that supply me with the milk I love....and now with my only registered pair I guess I will eventually have the same dilemma....I know my goats are not perfect and I have NEVER sold a buckling...always wethers...because even though the dams udders were suiting me with the capacity, they are not "purebreds".....The only buckling I kept ever is Teddy out of Bootsie....he has been bred with Angel for March kids...and once I see these kids it will determine wether or not he keeps his "boys". Pets are what they are, loveable and enjoyable and I have not raised my prices AT ALL in the 6 years my girls have been producing for me....Even though I still get questioned on why so much? Does are $85 and wethers are $65...some people don't realize the time and money it takes to ensure a healthy herd. As I mentioned, I sell pets because I can't afford to keep the offspring neccessary to have my girls produce the sweet milk that I enjoy. And Binky will be a third freshener in March, I can't wait to see what everyone thinks of her udder this time around....I really liked the capacity and attachments last time, hopefully this time is even better. :)
  20. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    i understand that some people jsut want bucks for milk production purposes. but this lady just wants pets, and to make pets, and to sell off all the babies. that is why i think wethers would be better. then the doe isn't constantly pregnant and the babies are sold off at ridiculous prices..

    i have two other people who are looking into the goats for milk purposes, and down the line, i would probably sell them a buck with no papers easy, if he was good enough.

    i'm just saying this lady is like the other 90% of the "breeders" down here and only in it for a puppy mill