Copper bolus again?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by 21goaties, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. 21goaties

    21goaties Well-Known Member

    Mar 13, 2018
    Southern GA
    I have a quick question for you guys. Iris was given 4 grams of copper on Feb 19th

    Based on this pic should I give her another 4 grams?
    She has also been on Replamin plus weekly for the last 3 weeks (with a 5 day loader dose)

    iris.jpg
     
    Iluvlilly! likes this.
  2. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    I would wait another month and then assess. Hair changes don't happen fast and correcting a mineral deficiency can take months.

    I'm not one to shy away from more copper bolusing, but since you've introduced the Replamin (and I'm assuming loose minerals?) to her. I would wait a bit longer. Is she new to you?

    I would not have hesitated to give a large doe like this 8 or even 12 grams of copper bolus at the start then wait & watch 3 months (I know, that makes some users cringe), but now that's she's had a bunch of Replamin I'd just wait a bit longer.

    Can't wait to see the AFTER photo! I love mineral improvements
     
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  3. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I wait until 4 months later, then reassess.

    Also keep in mind, if they still have winter coat(fluff) that does have a different color usually, until they shed it out. ;)
     
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  4. 21goaties

    21goaties Well-Known Member

    Mar 13, 2018
    Southern GA
    Ok, thank you! She has been on loose minerals for over a year. She's currently the most copper deficient looking goat in the herd and was recently dewormed. The pic may make her look big but she is a pretty small goat. :)
    And no she is not new, she will be 8 on April 8th and we've had her since birth. I didn't learn about minerals until I joined the forum though.
    She has been getting alfalfa pellets every day (measured out to 1 and 1/2 cups per goat but she is sharing with 9 others) and I know that doesn't help with copper but she needs to gain weight.
    And she has had lice treatment (Feb 19th) but we will do it again.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
    SalteyLove likes this.
  5. 21goaties

    21goaties Well-Known Member

    Mar 13, 2018
    Southern GA
    I bet she will look better in summer, she is covered in shedding fluff right now.
     
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  6. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  7. friesian49

    friesian49 Active Member

    194
    Jul 2, 2018
    PA
    I split a 4 gram bolus between the girls, last one was in January. I noticed a big change after a bit in the brown color, but it stalled about half ways in the one's brown hair - goes from head to about withers. So half is a deeper brown, other half is faded. I'm taking it slowly till I figure out what they need!
     
  8. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  9. 21goaties

    21goaties Well-Known Member

    Mar 13, 2018
    Southern GA
    Well, it's been one month and she still looks deficient based on her coat. She has gained a little weight (she also got dewormed after fecal) but is not at what I would say is a healthy weight yet. We stopped feeding pellets because everything started growing again and they have 2 big pastures/woods to forage.
    Do you want to see a photo of her?
    Should I bolus again?
    @SalteyLove
     
  10. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    So it's been like 2 months total right? And she has been on Replamin that whole time? Yes I would give another 4 gram
     
  11. 21goaties

    21goaties Well-Known Member

    Mar 13, 2018
    Southern GA
    Oh yes it has been 2 months :bonk:
    She's only been on replamin plus since March 13th. I have been almost completely faithful about giving it weekly but have given it every 10 days here and there. She got a dose yesterday.
     
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  12. 21goaties

    21goaties Well-Known Member

    Mar 13, 2018
    Southern GA
    Okay, we gave her another 4 grams on the 26th. She is still on Replamin Plus too.
     
  13. 21goaties

    21goaties Well-Known Member

    Mar 13, 2018
    Southern GA
    Here's some new pics of Iris. She's still on replamin plus, last had a 4 gram copper bolus on April 26th. You can see her black coat underneath the red! @SalteyLove

    IMG_20200624_121034397.jpg IMG_20200624_121056909_HDR.jpg IMG_20200624_121059469_HDR.jpg IMG_20200624_121117485_HDR.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  14. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    It's tough waiting for the last of that wiry red coat to fall out but she sure will look lovely after! The things about the deficiencies is it not only makes the poor quality fur, but it also delays the shedding of that fur!

    I did an accidental experiment with my does and the speed of shedding by super dosing one doe with copper bolus in the autumn. She is solid red so she shows her deficiency much easier than the white does. She shedded out GORGEOUS this spring, proving to myself that I was still underdosing some of them. (that's with loose minerals, MultiMin90 injections, AND copper bolusing above the 1 gram/22 pounds.... geesh). I'm still seeing some wiry hair to be shed in late June on the does that had less!
     
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  15. friesian49

    friesian49 Active Member

    194
    Jul 2, 2018
    PA
    It definitely is a challenge to get the dose right for each one. I have twins, the one's coat is very nice and color is dark. The other one has a bit of a curl, is still a bit wiry, and a lighter brown. I need to check the dates, but I think it'll be safe to give her another one. I get paranoid and go to the lower end of dosage!

    Glad to see Iris is doing better, nice horns! The way my girls are growing, it's like I have built-in arm rest when facing them head on!
     
  16. CCCSAW

    CCCSAW Well-Known Member

    416
    Jul 11, 2019
    California
    Copper might be stored in the liver but in the case of a severely deficient goat it could be getting used faster then it's being stored. And personally if improvements aren't still happening they simply aren't getting enough copper to store any extra for long term use. In my case I have 2 goats that need 2-4 grams above their recommended of 5 and 6 grams each. I know one of the people on TGS was at one point giving their goats 12 grams per dose because they where battling a copper binding mineral such as iron (I believe every 3-4 months). I've seen 100% improvements in 1-2 weeks with proper doses. You don't need 2 months to tell you it's not enough

    Think of it like a basket of apples if every time you put 1 in someone takes 1 out you'll always have an empty basket. But if you can put apples in even just a little faster then others can take them eventually the basket will be full and you can take a break right?

    I'm not saying give her 8 grams a dose instead of 4, but I will say you have given her 8 grams over 6 months and she's still deficient so maybe next time you gives her copper try 6 grams and see if that's enough to pull her up the rest of the way, then if you have to dose her again in 2 months do 4 and see how she does again but consider upping her to 8 grams the next time. If you stick with 4 grams your possibly only ever going to see limited improvement, and have to dose every 2 months. But if you can figure out what dose she actually needs you would see 100% improvement (minus fish tails those take forever) and possibly get her up to only needing it every 3-4 months.
     
    toth boer goats likes this.
  17. 21goaties

    21goaties Well-Known Member

    Mar 13, 2018
    Southern GA
    Thanks guys! I give all the bigger goats 8 grams when I bolus and the smaller ones 4 grams. Her son is bigger than her and has red curls (he should be black) so I gave him 8 grams on May 30th. We have a lot of iron in our well water, if you fill up a cup from the hose you can see red particles (iron bacteria), floating around in there. We don't filter the goats' water but the water filter for the house turns completely red and slimy.

    Iris has had:
    4 grams April 2018
    4 grams August 1st 2018
    4 grams November 19th 2018
    4 grams May 24th 2019
    8 grams August 24th 2019
    8 grams October 25th 2019
    4 grams February 19th 2020
    4 grams April 26th 2020

    Started on Replamin Plus (five day loader dose) February 19th 2020, she has gotten it nearly every week (sometimes 10 days) since then. She had some random doses of it in 2019 too.

    I think I'll give her another 4 grams and see how she does.
     
    toth boer goats likes this.
  18. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    That sequence looks like some of my goat's records! It can be a tough battle and always trying to by cautious but do best. One of my gals, probably only 110 pounds, I finally lost my patience because she just wouldn't come up over that cusp of having a perfectly shiny smooth coat, and I gave her 12 grams one time. It worked! Now I can keep her on a lower maintenance dose. I think sometimes when they have been deficient for a while, you have to hammer them. I'll let you know when one of mine croaks from copper poisoning (JOKING!)
     
  19. 21goaties

    21goaties Well-Known Member

    Mar 13, 2018
    Southern GA
    Check out Iris! I haven't given her any more boluses or replamin (will do) but she got a bit blacker and shinier!
    IMG_20200713_130724241.jpg
    IMG_20200711_130819595.jpg
     
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  20. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member