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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I'm new to owning goats and I have six mini-Nubian kids that I got earlier this spring. I live in a VERY rainy area with mineral-deficient soil and we've been struggling with issues of copper deficiency - lightening hair on some of them, some trouble putting on weight, etc. I dosed them all with the 2g caps of Copasure three weeks ago. In the meantime some of them have put on a substantial amount of weight and seem markedly healthier. But some of the others don't seem to have had a noticeable effect - the roots on the hair of the light patches look the same and they are still growing at a slower rate than I would hope.

I'm worried about one in particular, who's the smallest - her deficiency symptoms have gotten worse in the past three weeks since we did the Copasure, like she now has a noticeable "fishtail" which she didn't before. I know it hasn't been very long, but I'm wondering if I should redose her and get more copper into her system. If she is still copper deficient I don't want to wait, she's young and small and I want to her to have the best start during her growing period that she can, but I'm worried about giving her too much and it being a toxic dose, too. There's just so much conflicting information out there about this, and our vet is no help on this issue. Theoretically this dose should have been enough based on the 1g/22lbs rule, but....

She only weighs 31 lbs - the other goats I'm still concerned about are closer to 40. I'm very confident in the quality of their diet in general, and they are doing well in terms of worm load right now so I don't think that's the issue either.

I'd appreciate any insight into this.
 

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Wait until 8 weeks to redose if it's needed it does take time. Have they been on any kind of Cocci and/or worm prevention? Living in a very rainy area myself, I can tell you it can be a dance sometimes. Rain washes the nutrients away so not just copper, also selenium, iodine, cobalt, and lisign. Kelp can a big difference in our areas. Just free choice like their loose minerals. Can I ask you what you are feeding and a general idea of where you're at? It would help us to help you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks so much goathiker! I do have them on the kelp now, they were eating just a little at first, but now they seem to be eating quite a bit of it, so I'm happy about that. They refuse to eat loose minerals - we have them on a salt/mineral block now, which I know isn't ideal for goats, but it's better than them not eating the minerals at all :-/

As for the rest of their diet, we give them alfalfa and orchard hay every day, and a mix of whole oats and sunflower seeds as the grain, and they browse all day over 10 acres of trees and weeds.

We have them on the Molly's herbals for the worm/cocci prevention; prior to that they did have a fairly severe strongyle load and we dewormed chemically for that.

I know the mineral issue is a big problem here (I live in Oregon too - in the rainiest microclimate in Sandy!) and I've been wondering about selenium and the others too - but isn't the fishtailing specifically a copper deficiency thing? It really has gotten noticeably worse since we did the bolus :-/ Goat health is so complicated!
 

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It is complicated sometimes. Copper needs Selenium to work. Selenium needs vitamin E to work. High Iron defeats copper. It's a dance.

Molly's will not kill liver fluke. If you have slugs, you have liver fluke. Ivomec Plus is the best thing for that in our area, given orally, over the hump of the tongue, at 1cc for 33lbs. Spring and fall. As soon as you have enough posts I will PM you with some more info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Oh wow. Okay, hmmm, liver flukes aren't something I'd come across in any of my research yet but now I'm looking into it for sure. We obviously have plenty of slugs. The goats all have really good-looking membranes right now, so if the flukes are an issue, at least they haven't progressed to that point. I'm a little concerned because I read on one site that the Ivo Plus is very hard on the liver and that it might not be safe to use on goats under six months. My youngest is five months... Also, right now I'm definitely focused on just getting the girls as healthy as they can possibly be, but we are planning to use them for dairy, and I see that the milk withholding time for Ivo Plus is 1-2 months...I don't really see how we could administer that twice annually. Time to see what the other goat dairies in the area do, I guess....

Re: the selenium - do you give the selenium gel or injection on a regular basis, or do you just rely on the selenium in the loose minerals? I'm afraid to give the gel because I know the toxic dose of selenium isn't very high.

Thanks again for your help!
 

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Actually injection is better. While selenium can be toxic, if you dose it correctly you should be fine.

Your goats that are still showing "copper" deficiency are probably also very selenium deficient.
 

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FOr liver fluke you can also use Valbazen which is Kid friendly..oral 1 cc per 10#. Ivomac plus and valbanzen are the only two wormers to kill liver fluke.
Good advice given on the mineral issue...

for loose mineral...I would try again...only put out enough for daily consumption since you live in a wet area...mold can grow pretty fast...I have a loose mineral for my goats that my goats turned their nose up at but now eat it eagerly...I switch from one with less copper to one with higher numbers..it doesnt smell like candy any more lol...it took time for them to eat it but now do...keep trying..the problem with blocks is they have too much salt and are hard to eat..both of which will slow the nibbling down and cut on what they actually are needing...
best wishes
 

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What has finally negated the low copper/high iron problem I have is something called Multimin 90. It is an injection with copper, selenium, zinc, and manganese. Despite very regular copsure dosing with my goats, my black colored goats (who are good copper barometers for everyone) were still rusty. Since giving ONE injection a couple of months ago, the black goats are SOLID black and everyone is sleek and shiny.

For all I know, I could have been having a zinc problem too. But I knew copper was a problem here, because of the super high iron content of the water and soil (iron mining is a big industry around here, so it isn't a surprise).
 

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What has finally negated the low copper/high iron problem I have is something called Multimin 90. It is an injection with copper, selenium, zinc, and manganese. Despite very regular copsure dosing with my goats, my black colored goats (who are good copper barometers for everyone) were still rusty. Since giving ONE injection a couple of months ago, the black goats are SOLID black and everyone is sleek and shiny.

For all I know, I could have been having a zinc problem too. But I knew copper was a problem here, because of the super high iron content of the water and soil (iron mining is a big industry around here, so it isn't a surprise).
I have been considering trying Multimin 90. What is the dosage?
 

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If you don't want to do injections with Multimin, Replamin Plus is the oral that is like Multimin (not as strong). I have been using it since July and I have been happy with the results. My goats love the taste so it is very easy to give it to them and it is nice to have one less shot to give.
 

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I have been considering trying Multimin 90. What is the dosage?
1mL/100lbs. Just be warned, it definitely stings them when it is given, since all mine flipped out. I mean, a couple of my goats are just dramatic when it comes to injections, but they all were sore afterwards. I gave it subQ and made them walk it off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, as it happens, today I found a new brand of loose minerals that my farm store is carrying and I tried them out on the goats and they LOVED them. Yay! That's one less thing to worry about!

On Monday I'm going to call this vet I've seen in another town a ways from us who actually specializes in sheep and goats (and who is more recently out of school so should have a more updated education about their needs) and ask her about getting the BoSe, as well as her opinion about liver fluke issues in our area. I'll hold off on doing more copper until we've got a handle on the other factors. Thanks very much to everyone for your ideas, I appreciate it very much!
 

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1mL/100lbs. Just be warned, it definitely stings them when it is given, since all mine flipped out. I mean, a couple of my goats are just dramatic when it comes to injections, but they all were sore afterwards. I gave it subQ and made them walk it off.
Thanks
 
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