Deer, elk, bears and LGD's

Discussion in 'Precious Protectors' started by bheila, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. bheila

    bheila New Member

    644
    Jan 9, 2009
    Kent, Wa
    We're going to be putting in 200 wood posts and 2000' of field fencing which is 4' tall. We'll also run hotwire at the top of the fence and at the bottom about 6-8" off the ground. We want to fence it so we can put steers, ponies, goats or even pasture raise some pigs.

    We have very friendly deer and elk. They'll get within 30 feet of us. There was a doe last week who let her twin fawns nurse while we watched...very cool! Our hay farmer said that if we use the 4' fencing then the deer or elk are less likely to ruin it when they jump over it. I'm hoping that won't happen and they'll start new trails somewhere else. Does anyone have any experience with them ruining their fence? The bear is another issue. He killed 9 of our neighbors chickens and just stood there when she tried to scare him away. I know what I'll need to get rid of him :wink:

    Donkey, llama or LGD is another issue we have to work on. I would much rather get a dog than to have to deal with trimming a donkey or llama's hooves, not to mention shearing. Which kind of protector would work best for deers, elk and bears? :help:
     
  2. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    If you have bears around, I would have 3 LGDs. One to stay with herd while other two go after intruder. They figure this out on their own.
    Actually their mere presence is often a deterrant, at least with coyotes etc.
     

  3. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    wish I could help with those kind of predator issues....but... we don't have any of those where we live.... I do think however ....that a LGD...at least 2.... would work out better... than a donkey or llama.... If you have 2 LGD ....they can back each other up and more likely scare off some of those things ....with just barking alone.... :wink:
     
  4. bheila

    bheila New Member

    644
    Jan 9, 2009
    Kent, Wa
    I'm not concerned about the coyotes. Our worthless dogs :wink: (pit/lab mutt and english bulldog) keep them away. Our neighbor up the hill from us (who's chickens were killed) has a rottweiler and the bear didn't care about him either. Another thing that concerns me is that we won't be all that close to the animals anymore. We're moving to a new place with more acreage. Decisions, decisions....
     
  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    The types of dogs you mentioned... are not the same as LGD's...with LGD's... it is bred into them ....to protect the goats..... they are the best....at what they do....I love all the dog breeds you mentioned..... but they are just not the right protectors... for your livestock... good luck no matter what you do..... :thumb: :hug:
     
  6. bheila

    bheila New Member

    644
    Jan 9, 2009
    Kent, Wa
    I know what LGD's are....sorry if I confused you with my post ;) My dogs are worthless but the mere presence of them keeps the coyotes. I want an LGD I can trust enough to put in the pasture with our livestock.
     
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    no problem.... :wink: it is hard to find a LGD ....that is goat ready...to just put them out with your goats and trust..... they won't harm them....by play...without supervision.........I hope you do find a good one or 2...good luck.... :thumb: :hug:
     
  8. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    If you only plan on getting one LGD with Bear as a potential predator..... you are giving your dog a death sentence and will still loose stock. You need 3 LGD's to be effective against Bear and not have to worry about loosing them or huge vet bills trying to stitch them back together. Llamas and donkeys are Bear bait.... not guardians. :( Llamas and donkeys do better against small predators that would be intimidated by them.... Bear eat Elk they wouldn't be scared of a llama. :2cents:

    You may think about getting an adult LGD, maybe a yearling and a puppy or 2 puppies... as that may be your cheapest route but still effective in the long run. Just MAKE SURE before you purchase that adult that it is a PROVEN TRAINER for LGD pups... you don't want to put money into an adult that will allow the youngsters to play with the goats just because mom said the pups are allowed to be in there. :)
     
  9. bheila

    bheila New Member

    644
    Jan 9, 2009
    Kent, Wa
    Great points Jess! So much more to think about. Thank's!
     
  10. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    No problem! I just wanted to add that if you haven't owned LGD's.... 3 dogs may sound like a lot but really they are just like adding 3 more goats that are actually able to protect themselves. :) My adult Maremmas (I have 2) eat the same amount together as my 1 adult Akita (non LGD breed) They conserve their energy and as adults eat far less than any other breed of dogs their size. Also, as long as you train them to the hotwire you shouldn't have any problem keeping them in the fencing you are putting up. :)
     
  11. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    So will you be able to hear if your LGD is alerting you to a predator, with your new set up? If not, and you want your herd to be more self-contained, you'll need 3. Bigger the better, and already trained.

    I have my LGD pup in his OWN pen because he tries to play too hard. So I have to monitor his interactions with the goats, or he's separated by a fence. He still does his job (alerting me to grab my light and gun and get out there) very well.

    I have deer, bears, coons, foxes, and the occasional (but not yet on the goat side of the house) elk. Coons and foxes will go through the holes in field fence (which is what I have, too). Bears will go THROUGH field fence (breaking it) once they decide that they want what's on the other side. But, bears are lazy and opportunistic. Make your animals look like too much work to eat, and a bear will likely move on. The trapper that came said that chickens and goats have the same pull on a bear- chicken coops are just often easier to rip a wall off of and get out of dodge before someone with a gun shows up. And yes, deer will usually try to jump the fence if it goes through their established game path. I haven't had it happen because the deer don't want anything to do with Dierks. He's 4 months old, pushing 50 lbs, and he's got his big boy bark already.

    I second the proven trainer adult LGD. I'm currently in the market for one, since I work full time, Dierks isn't getting the time he needs with the goats. He just wants to be with them, but I can't trust him yet.


    On another note- You may want to reconsider putting pigs in field fence. Pigs are insanely intelligent and escape a LOT. Over, under, through, around, etc- the whole "where there's a will, there's a way" thing totally applies. Hot wire wouldn't be a big deterrent unless you got them as tiny piglets and trained them then... and still, I've known people who came home almost every day to a pig sunning in their driveway via some new, crazy escape.

    Good luck, sounds like you have your work cut out for you with the move!
     
  12. bheila

    bheila New Member

    644
    Jan 9, 2009
    Kent, Wa
    We're going to try and keep the cows at the farthest pasture because I won't worry about them so much. Being able to hear the dogs bark is what worries me. They won't be all that close to the house. We plan on building a couple of 24'x24' barns to lock up the goats. I don't want to sound cold but the chickens are disposable to me. I'd much rather something kill our chickens then the goats.

    The pigs being trained to the hot wire shouldn't be a problem. They guy we plan on buying from has his contained with hot wire too.

    It is a lot of work and we haven't even been able to start the pasture yet. So for now, the goats get to free range during the day when I'm home and I lock them up at night.
     
  13. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    I totally agree on the chickens- that's why i got so many LOL I figure we'll lose about half to predators- I just want eggs and cute birdies running around (And for my garden when i get one going next year!).

    I free range my goats on our 10 acres when I'm out with them. They're getting bolder now, though- trying to go next door! Lol so either i'm WITH them, or they're in their 2 acre pen (poor babies :roll: ).