Demi's sick...

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by lesserweevil, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    I'm more posting this to vent than anything.... :hair:

    I got a phone call last Friday from a friend who was minding the goats saying "Demi is scouring really badly and she wont eat, what do I do?"

    I'm like "how long has she been scouring?"

    He's like "a few days, your brother knows about it"

    :hair: okay so... WHY wait a few days before telling me, for a start???

    So I ordered her to get molasses + warm water + electrolytes for dehydration, also to give her more expensive creep feed instead of the pellets as she was more likely to eat that... to give her pepto bismol, vit B injection + penstrep injection, and to keep up all treatments (except the penstrep as it is long-acting) until her scouring stopped.

    I sent a few messages back asking about how Demi was doing over the next few days... didn't really hear anything.

    Today (Wednesday) I hear that Demi won't eat even the creep feed, she is looking all droopy and skeletal.

    I'm like WHY dont people say this sooner??????????? there's not much I can do from a different country?!!! and one of the sheep is sick like this too now. So I have told my brother to get the vet out to see them - he should be coming after lunch.

    I'm so miffed. I really hope she's ok. (and the sheep, of course). My bro says Harmony is pretty thin too.


    What to dooooooooooooooooo

  2. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    oh weevil :( thats horrible. I'm praying for Demi to pull through, and the rest of them to get better also.

    Could she be wormy?

  3. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
  4. FunnyRiverFarm

    FunnyRiverFarm New Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    Hudson, MI
    Oh no! :( Maybe you could get your brother to have a fecal exam done at the vets so you'll have more clues about what is going on...wasn't Whisper having trouble with scours this year too?

    I sure hope you can get everything figured out...How hard it must be not being able to go home to them :(
  5. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    I agree, possibly worms. :hug: I will be :pray: she pulls through.
  6. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    I am thinking Cocci.

    At least you have a wonderful vet. I know he has always done a great job on all your animals. :pray:
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Oh no :( ....I am praying for her......... :pray: :hug:
  8. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    all I know so far.... is that I just got back from work and found a missed call from my vet (too late to ring him back now) and a message from my sis in law saying that all the goats are sick, and the sheep... (just the one sheep, i THINK)


    *waits for more news*
  9. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    oh no. :( i hope they are all going to be ok. You had enough trouble a few years ago.

    I hope all will be fine.
  10. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Ok... just phoned my bro to get the next update!

    The sheep + goats have fluke... Demi has been sick quite a while, so has the sick ewe that my brother spoke to me about this morning... they both have white gums.

    The vet looked at the fluke medication that we have (endospec) - and have been dosing them with throughout the fluke season - and says that it only attacks eggs and adult fluke - but not the larvae stages. It doesnt say that it doesnt, it just omits to mention them, therefore that's their way of saying that it's not there... so he has recommended a different fluke treatment which my brother has bought. He has also recommended a pro-vitamin complex to give them in the meantime.

    It is obviously fairly severe fluke where Demi and this sheep are concerned, and I suppose less severe in the others - Whisper + Harmony's poop went back to normal after the treatment I gave them so I was assuming stomach bug, but the vet says they all have fluke.

    He says it's going to be a long and slow recovery process... not to expect any miracles to happen after treatment, as the damage is already done to the livers.

    I am going to call the vet myself, tomorrow, and ask of the possibility of an iron tonic injection to give them to boost their red cells with their anaemia.

    I don't want to lose any of my babies...

    It just still getting to me that it took THIS Long... I mean, I blame myself partially cause I wasnt there to see it - but, i CANT be, I dont live there any more!!! I have a 3rd floor apartment in a city in a different country :cries:


    ok so.... gotta remember to call tomorrow!

  11. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    OK this is email I just sent to my bro FYI so that you can see what I'm planning on treatment wise:

    Ok... so all the animals including those so junior are going to be dosed for fluke... with the new amazing Quinns stuff. - can I have the name? then I can look it up.
    all the juniors are goig to be dosed with vecoxan... (I will ask the vet when I phone him whether it is worth dosing the ewes as well)
    all the animals including those so junior are going to be dosed with Oramec
    I will phone the vet in the morning to ask about the Iron supplement and will txt you the answer.
    Please keep giving the sick animals the warm molasses + water + liquid-life-aid to help them along - they wont do well without the energy, etc.
    Also give them ivy leaves (NOT holly or anything else as they are poisonous) this will help them to regain appetite.
    all the adult goats may appreciate the warm drink - we dont know how they are fluke wise, and if Harmony is really thin, it probably is her, at least and they both had a few days of serious scouring.
    Keep giving Pro-vitamin drench / thriver drench to them as needed.
    I will ask the vet about pen-strep - if it's not needed, we dont want to give it to them as it will only mess up the bacterias in their stomach.
  12. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    so sorry Katie :hug: I hope with the new medicine they do bounce back to their normal selves
  13. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    How horrible for you and you are so far away. :GAAH:
  14. kornhypknotic

    kornhypknotic New Member

    May 14, 2009
    Waco, TX
    Oh dear :sigh: . . . is it the Liver Fluke (Fasciola hepatica) that your vet found? Or is it the Rumen Fluke (Paramphistomum sp.)?

    The Liver Fluke is one bad dude and can cause, anemia, weight loss, decreased production and weaning weights, hepatitis, icterus (jaundice), other liver problems, and even death. The Rumen Fluke is not so bad and it is rarely pathogenic (that means it usually doesn't cause diseases) but the baby flukes can cause enteritis (inflamed intestines) and diarrhea. Hopefully your kids have the rumen fluke . . . it sounds easier to treat.

    There are several things you can treat with (or so it says in my textbook, but things may have changed. Go with your vet on whatever he says if he's a good vet he will know what works best)

    For F. hepatica (Liver Fluke)
    BTW: these are the drug names, not generics
    1) Albendazole at 15mg/kg by mouth * I believe this is the primary drug that's in Endospec, but check your label to be sure*
    2) Clorsulon at 7mg/kg SQ
    3) Nitroxynil at 10mg/kg by mouth
    4) Rafoxanide at 7.5 mg/kg by mouth

    For Paramphistomum sp. (Rumen Fluke)
    1) Niclosamide 90mg/kg by mouth
    2) Oxyclozanide 25mg/kg by mouth

    So . . . if you are trying to use Endospec to treat liver flukes (the more common livestock fluke) then it will probably work . . . if you're using it and your goats have Rumen fluke then it probably will not work. So ask your vet what kind of flukes they have to be sure.

    If you want to know how many kg's your goat weighs, just find out what they weigh in pounds and divide it by 2.2.

    So for the Albendazole it says to dose at 15mg/kg. If your goat weighs 100lbs then take 100 and divide by 2.2 = 45.4kg.

    Of course, supportive therapy with electrolytes, molasses, etc. which has already been suggested can only help the goats.

    Fluke worms have an indirect life cycle. This means that they need a host animal before infected the livestock. The host for Fluke worms are often snails. Snail control is one of the ways that you can prevent Fluke worm infections in your animals.

    *Liver flukes also predispose affected animals to clostridial diseases such as tetanus and over-eating disease so make sure you vaccinated them after they get over their current problems according to your vet's instructions.

    Good luck! Keep us all updated!! I will be thinking about you and your goats! :pray:
  15. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    Katie lives in the UK so available meds are different from what we have here. Hopefully her vet and her brother have everything under control and they get well soon.
  16. kornhypknotic

    kornhypknotic New Member

    May 14, 2009
    Waco, TX
    Thanks crocee! I had no idea Katie lives overseas! I thought she was just traveling! :doh: Duh @ me

    I checked the book "Diseases of the Goat" by John Matthews which was written and published in the UK in 2007 and it had all the same meds and the same doses :D (crocee is right though, they will have different generic names than we have in the states, but it appears that the active drugs are the same in both countries :D).
    It also included one other drug:
    Triclabendazole at 10mg/kg by mouth . . . it's affective against flukes at all life stages whereas some drugs will only kill the adults or the baby flukes.

    For Albendazole (the active drug in endospec) Matthews mentions that fasting the animals for 24 hours prior to dosing makes the drug more effective. In this case there might not be enough time for that or the animals may have already fasted themselves for a day or more because their tummies hurt so much :tears:

    Katie, your vet is the best source of info and you should definitely take his advice over mine. I'm just adding some info about the disease and its recommended treatments. If the vet gets stumped or if he (I think you said your vet was a 'he') wants more info I would recommend the book that I listed above and the book that I got the doses out of originally is called "Veterinary Parasitology: Reference Manual" 5th Ed. by William J. Foreyt.
  17. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    It's liver fluke, I've had animals die from it before - it's in our ground, I KNOW it's in our ground, that's why I make sure that they are dosed for fluke throughout the fluke season. It just sucks that endospec hasn't been working for us - maybe the fluke in our area is resistant to it.
    Hopefully none of the babies have it yet and it's only the adults... either way they're ALL getting treated with the new medication. Will let you know what it is when I'm told myself!!!

    But now I'm off to England til Monday and will have no internet access until then... so unfortunately I will be unable to update on the animals' condition until then. Ill make sure I do keep myself posted from my brother though!!! (he better!)

  18. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    hope the flukes can be treated fast. get better soon demi!
  19. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    I retract that... flights to London are cancelled until further notice due to volcanic ash cloud floating over from Iceland... so I'll have internet for a bit longer :(
  20. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    ok this is what the vet recommended:

    Oral drench for the control of fasciolosis in cattle containing 10g of triclabendazole per 100 ml of FASINEX 10%. The unique efficacy of FASINEX against the early immature and immature Fasciola stages makes this product particularly useful for the treatment of outbreaks of acute and subacute fasciolosis and for the strategic control of Fasciola infections.

    however my brother wasn't able to get that as the store only had a massive container which was way too expensive, so he says he has bought another product that has the exact same ingredients. Hopefully this is true *crosses fingers*