Depressed Kid

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by CaitlinD6, Aug 13, 2017.

  1. CaitlinD6

    CaitlinD6 New Member

    13
    Aug 13, 2017
    Hello all! I'm somewhat new to goat raising, I had goats when I was a kid but this is my first venture into really raising goats.

    So here's my question:

    I have an 11 week old Nubian kid that seems depressed and has green diarrhea (not severe, just clumpy; it rained last night). I dewormed her about 2 weeks ago with panacur at 1cc/20lbs, and have her on a coccidia preventive right now (CoRid at 15ml/1gal of water). She was anemic and I had her on 3cc Red Cell once a day until her color returned. Each of these dosages are on my vet's recommendation. She's on a 2 acre pasture with four herdmates and gets a very small handful of grain twice a day, as well as free choice alfalfa and costal bermuda hay. Salt and loose minerals offered free choice, but I just found out about offering baking soda, so I will be starting that today. She grazes, browses, eats, and drinks fine, she just hasn't seemed to be acting herself lately.

    What could be wrong with her? Ruminal acidosis? Enterotoxemia? Something else? Or am I just overreacting because this is my favorite kid? Her mom has been slowly weaning her and her sister (who seems perfectly fine), and the herd dynamics have changed a bit because of it, could she just be depressed because of that? Sorry if that's a stupid question lol.

    What can I do for her? Should I just call the vet? She's not in distress, she's eating and drinking and moving with the herd, she just doesn't seem to be very vibrant like she used to be. We've had a bad parasite season, and she got it the worst, could she still be stressed from that?

    Any help is appreciated. Thanks!!
     
    capracreek likes this.
  2. Suzanne_Tyler

    Suzanne_Tyler GreenTGoats

    Jul 19, 2014
    US
    Don't offer baking soda free choice.

    Dosing any meds in their water isn't a great idea. It's impossible to make sure they each get the correct dose.

    Green scours means dietary. Has her diet changed at all recently? Clumpy might just mean stress from the weather change though.

    Can you get a fecal done?
     
    lottsagoats1 and capracreek like this.

  3. CaitlinD6

    CaitlinD6 New Member

    13
    Aug 13, 2017
    Oh okay. Just for my own curiosity, can I ask why? I've read and been told to offer baking soda to ward off bloat, that's why I mentioned it.

    My vet told me to dose this way, though this last round he advised drenching a treatment dose directly for a week (CoRid 1cc/20lbs), then preventive in their water for 2 weeks. I can definitely start drenching the preventive though. I do worry about a resistance forming with dosing in their water.

    The only thing that has changed is that I haven't been able to find the chopped alfalfa I've been giving, so they went a few days without it. I offered soaked alfalfa pellets instead, but they didn't touch it. Everything else has been the same. I assumed that she was scouring because it rained and she ate wet grass? I had some errands to run so I haven't been out to check her droppings again.

    I can get a fecal done, I was planning on doing just that :)
     
    capracreek likes this.
  4. CaitlinD6

    CaitlinD6 New Member

    13
    Aug 13, 2017
    Update: I checked her poo. It's really soft now. Not runny, but softer than the clumps she had earlier
     
    capracreek likes this.
  5. slackwater

    slackwater Member

    95
    Jul 24, 2015
    If she's anemic, it's likely something the Panacur won't treat. Need a fecal and stronger wormers
     
    CaitlinD6 and capracreek like this.
  6. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I would get a fecal for worms and cocci.

    What is the goats temp?

    Putting corid in water doesn't dose the goat.
    It must be individual.
    Lethargic and hunching can mean cocci.
    But if not properly dosed, it won't be cured.
    It must be for 5 days. Here is how you mix your own from undiluted forms.

    Mixing undiluted Corid liquid:
    Mix 6 tablespoons corid to 16 oz water....
    For powdered mixture...3 ounces to 1 quart
    Pre mixed solution give as follows
    then dose it at ...
    30cc per 100lbs
    15cc per 50lbs
    7.5 per 25 lbs
    treat individually for 5 days


    20% Powdered mixture: 3 ounces(10.5 tblspns) to 1 quart water
    Mixed solution well. Shake well before use.
    then dose it at ...
    30cc per 100lbs
    15cc per 50lbs
    7.5 per 25 lbs
    and so on
    treat individually for 5 days

    Green poo does indicate dietary, but sometimes could be the start of cocci or worms too.

    No grain while scouring. After any course of treatment, a day after final dose is given, probitoics orally and fortified vit B complex should be given SQ 6 cc's per 100 lbs for 3 to 4 days. If giving corid do not give the fortified vit B complex at the same time.

    Is there any gut movement or sounds, left side?

    Is the goat copper deficient? Fishtail, rough coat, discolored coat?
     
  7. Suzanne_Tyler

    Suzanne_Tyler GreenTGoats

    Jul 19, 2014
    US
  8. CaitlinD6

    CaitlinD6 New Member

    13
    Aug 13, 2017
    Thank you so much, it is so hard to find a straight answer about CoRid anywhere!

    I'm pretty sure she has worms again. She's a bit anemic and is scouring. I'm sending off a fecal sample tomorrow. I heard gut sounds when I checked this morning. What wormer would you recommend? I was going to give ivomec before I was prescribed panacur. Should I give that, or both of those, or something else?

    She does have a fishtail and some coat discoloration (one or two small spots on her back). I had to bolus her mom about two months ago (a few weeks after I got them) because she was ate up with worms that I couldn't get rid of and had a fishtail. The producer I got them from never gave minerals and told me they weren't necessary, which I disregarded and gave minerals anyway lol. My vet told me not to bolus at all, and I've read not to bolus kids until 3 months, so I was waiting for that. I've been giving red cell to help her out in the meantime. She's almost there, should I go ahead and bolus her?
     
    capracreek likes this.
  9. Suzanne_Tyler

    Suzanne_Tyler GreenTGoats

    Jul 19, 2014
    US
    Don't worm until you get the fecal results back.

    I would go ahead and copper bolus.
     
    CaitlinD6 and capracreek like this.
  10. CaitlinD6

    CaitlinD6 New Member

    13
    Aug 13, 2017
    capracreek likes this.
  11. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    You are very welcome. :)

    Good advice by Suzanne_Tyler.
    I agree.

    Your vet is wrong about bolusing kids. You need the 2 gram ones.
    I would give one, especially if the goat is showing signs and wormy.

    0.5 gram – goats 30lbs and under
    1 – 2 grams – goats 31lbs – 50lbs
    1.5 – 3 grams – goats 51lbs – 90lbs
    2 – 4 grams – goats over 90lbs

    The higher end of the dosage is used more for help with parasite control (prolonging the period between dewormings), while the lower end of the dosage is typically used as a starter for signs of copper deficiency. Based on the USDA info found here these dosages are well within the safe range and as with all mineral supplement the smallest portion needed should be given first before giving a higher dosage.
    This is where I got the info for dosage.
    http://goatspots.com/articles/copper/

    This is the Amazon copper bolus and it does mention kids, please read below.

    UltraCruz Goat Copper Bolus for Kids, 100 X 2 grams
    5.0 out of 5 stars 4 customer reviews
    • Convenient, long lasting, and slow-release bolus that can be used in copper deficient kid goats to maintain healthy growth
    • Excellent source of slow-release copper for goats deficient in this essential trace mineral
    • Specifically designed for kid goats under 3 months of age, weighing up to 50 lbs
    • For use in goats only
    • Supplied as 100 boluses (Each bolus is 2 grams)
     
    capracreek likes this.
  12. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Depending on the worm types Ivomec injectable does take care of many worms, but not tapes. If she is anemic, she will have to be injected SQ 1 cc per 40 lbs. Otherwise, if her color is border line or above according to the famancha chart, you can give it orally, 1 cc per 33 lbs. If it is Barber pole worms you have to get the Ivomec plus.
    Anytime you worm, make sure it is 3 x 10 days apart if the goat is bad with worms. You should follow up with a fecal about 10 days to 2 weeks after last wormed to see if all worms are gone. If not then you can follow up with it or another wormer orally for the worms she had.

    Red cell is dosed at 6 cc's s per 100 lbs for 1 week then it is 1 x a week thereafter. But, monitor her coloring daily and stop anytime the color gets to border line according to the famancha chart. So the iron is not overdosed.
     
  13. CaitlinD6

    CaitlinD6 New Member

    13
    Aug 13, 2017
    Thank you. It took longer than I would have liked, but I got the fecal back and she has a large roundworm load. The comments note that tapeworms were seen in one of her herdmates.
     
    toth boer goats likes this.
  14. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  15. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  16. lottsagoats1

    lottsagoats1 Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2014
    Middle Maine
    Check out www.wormx.info for up to date worm information. WWW.sheepandgoat.com is another really good site.

    11 weeks of age is a dangerous age for a kid. They are losing the passive immunity they got from mom and building their own immune system. Cocci and worms take advantage of the depressed immune system and really multiply. If it were me, I'd get a fecal done and treat for cocci. Then I would follow a prevention protocol for cocci until she is older and her immune system is strong. I'd also keep treating her for anemia until you can get the internal parasites under control. I use injectable piglet iron rather than the Red Cell or any other oral preparation. I would also put her sister on the cocci prevention if it is her twin sister.

    Your vet sounds like he/she is not really familiar with goats or he/she would not have told you to free choice the cocci meds in water or use Panacur. Did he/she do a fecal?

    I agree with Suzanne about the baking soda, use only when bloat is suspected- not free choice. Unless they are getting a ton of grain with little to no roughage, they don't need it. Roughage is a natural buffer.
     
  17. CaitlinD6

    CaitlinD6 New Member

    13
    Aug 13, 2017
    It was getting really hard financially to get fecals done at the vet so I sent them in to Texas A&M. They tested for everything. No cocci but I started her on the treatment dose and wormed with ivomec. I started her sister (they are twins) and their five month old herdmates on cocci prevention as well. I wormed the ones with tapes with Ivomec plus.

    Thankfully I've only had trouble with the one little girl, and she seems to be rebounding. No longer scouring, has more energy, and her color is coming back. I'm so relieved because she's my favorite lol. Her momma was so wormy when I first got them, I guess it all caught up and hit her the hardest. I'm going to see if I can find a better vet for emergencies because this one was absolutely zero help. I was told he is a great vet for goats, but I haven't seen proof of that.

    Thank you all so much for the help!! I've done so much research, but nothing beats personal experience! I really appreciate all of you.

    I apologize for not updating sooner!! I didn't get any email notifications, and it's been a crazy week on top of taking care of a sick goat. She's doing a lot better now. Not 100% just yet, but definitely on the mend!
     
  18. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I know how busy life can get, don't feel bad.

    Glad she is doing OK, thanks for the update. :)
     
    CaitlinD6 likes this.