Deworming pregnant does =

Discussion in 'Parasites' started by HoosierShadow, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I'm trying to put a plan in place for if/when I need to deworm our pregnant does. Normally... if they need deworming I use Quest or Quest Plus.
    I've been doing my own fecals for a while now, but assessing just this year I see we tend to deal with Ostertagia (per a few people that helped me ID the egg), and we have had 2 other types of Trichostrongyle, but I see them more randomly, although one I want to say might be more common in cooler months? Time will tell.

    Valbazen given 3 days in a row at 1cc per 10lbs is very effective and cleans them out really well, in fact most times I don't even have to retreat, I just keep an eye on fecal.

    Well... Valbazen is NOT safe for pregnant does.
    So I am trying to figure out a plan of action to try if/when the pregnant girls need to be dewormed. Years past I would use Moxidectin (Quest/Quest Plus) or Ivermectin.
    But after using either and doing follow up fecals this summer I question just how effective they are vs. the Valbazen regiment I mentioned above. I wish now I'd kept complete records written down as far as fecal results per animal - so recently I started adding their results to their records.

    So... deciding on a dewormer....

    Someone mentioned to me about using Pyrantel Pamoate, I have absolutely no experience with that dewormer, safe? or how effective? They mentioned they used it and used the kind labeled for humans.

    Otherwise I've been debating getting Safeguard or Panacur and when time comes, use it for 3 days in a row, and day 1 also use Quest/Quest Plus or Ivermectin/Equimax. BUT... I question the Quest Plus and Equimax because it also has Praziquantel in it and that means they'd technically be getting 3 dewormers.

    If I do the dual deworming then I wonder what is most cost effective? Liquid or paste?
    I put together a deworming chart earlier this year and for dewormers I don't use I got dosages from reliable sources, but I have always questioned the Safeguard horse paste dosage (9x a goat's weight 3 days in a row? That would be a tube a day!).
    Valbazen has been the only liquid dewormer I've used, although way back in 2010 we did use the goat Safeguard per label directions and that was a total waste of $$.

    upload_2020-9-26_10-26-2.png

    So... I'd love thoughts on this. Not only for myself, but I'll be mentioning it to some locals as well who will be in the same boat as me if we need to deworm and wanting a good plan in place.

    ALSO - super curious if anyone has ever used ANTHELCIDE? I seen it on the shelf yesterday and have wondered about it. I want to say someone told me years ago it's similar to Ivermectin and not very effective?
     
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  2. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    Safeguard is only 3x the goat's weight. Only use at 10x if treating M Worm.

    It's in the benzimidazole family (safeguard, valbazen). No clue if it's stronger than safeguard, no clue if it's safe for preggos.

    No experience with this either, usually it's something dog and cat vets prescribe for goats (which makes me question it, lol) but it's sold as Strongid paste for horses.

    Have you ever tried natural prevention?
     

  3. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I'm really curious about it and it's effectiveness especially since it was recommended (although I was told human label is more cost effective/same thing).
     
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  4. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    Not sure what the concentration is for the human one.
     
  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    After 90 days pregnant, it is safe to use Ivomec, if you must.

    Worming any sooner, with any wormer has it's risks.

    But do not use Valbezen.

    Safeguard may not work as some know. But works great for M worm.
     
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  6. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I'll have to look - I'm super curious now lol

    Agreed, that is how I do it every year, I deworm well before breeding if needed, and do not deworm again until 3rd month or 4th month (as needed especially since I started doing my own fecal checks).

    I agree about Safeguard, but curious if used as a dual wormer if it would be more effective. Ivermectin isn't very useful by itself.
     
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  7. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    For me...if I have to worm during pregnancy..I use the quest with safe guard. It's easy on the doe and little ones. Because once she delivers..I get her again with quest/ ivermectin combo
    So..safeguard doesn't do much..and I know it won't hurt the little ones.
    I've never heard of the Anthelcide. Please let me know what you find out. Thanks
     
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  8. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    Quest is not easy on anyone. It’s a strong wormer. Not saying not to use it at all, just saying I don’t love the language that it’s easy on the doe. ;)
     
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  9. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks, I was curious if anyone had done it, and you seem to have good results with this? We do normally use Quest, so I am confident in using it. We have a doe that is not bred yet, she only got 1 dose of Valbazen, didn't have a bad worm egg count, but I want it to be lower before we breed her and I have debated if she needs a 2nd dose maybe trying the Quest/Safeguard to see the results in her fecal and know if it will work or not, so she may be my Guinea pig lol
    I need to do 4 of the 5 pregnant girls fecals, I am not expecting any issues and hope to keep it that way, but I normally have at least 1 later in pregnancy that ends up needing dewormed. I worry as well with stress - building their new barn, then trying to get them adjusted. Thankfully they seem to be handling the changes and temporary setup really well.

    We've used Quest or Quest Plus since 2011. It was recommended to us by the vet we were using and he said to use 2-3x a horse dose and that has always worked really well, but I worry about this particular worm we're dealing with being slightly stubborn and requiring more than 1 dose of Quest. So if the off chance Quest along with Safeguard would be about as effective as 3 days of Valbazen on unbred animals... that would be my pregnant doe go to. With Boer goats, and especially with the risk of big twins or triplets is the worry of Toxemia, and a lot of times I think worms even a small load can really pull them down when they are carrying a lot of baby in there to support. We had a doe that had triplets last year that had toxemia pretty bad with triplets in tow and ended up she was extremely wormy and I just didn't catch it. That's when I started doing my own fecals. She bounced back about a month after she kidded (induced her 8 days early, everyone was fine thankfully!).
    MY baby is not bred yet, but she kidded for the first time in January, and has always been an easy keeper. At the end of her pregnancy she suddenly started to look a bit rough, and sure enough she went from having a few eggs to having a worm load right about the time she kidded. It took me a few weeks to get her cleaned out. She is our smallest doe, but she raised the fastest growing kids this year.
     
  10. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
  11. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Honestly, from everything I have seen that entails having to buy herbals, dose daily, weekly, monthly and I'm just not interested in doing that.
    We do a lot for our goats tried a variety of minerals over the years, they get decent feed, 2 types of hay, protein/mineral tub, copper bolused 2-3x a year, Bo-Se 2x a year along with selenium e gel randomly. We also do Fastrack probiotics randomly through the year.
    If they can't thrive on everything we do, and have to add a bunch of other stuff then it becomes a hassle. If we weren't offering all that we have then I could see doing Herbals - hope that made sense? lol.

    We've had goats for over 10 years. It's definitely always nice to find new ways of doing things. We are very hands on with our herd. They all look good and healthy :)
    They are super picky about minerals though, but like the Purina minerals. I just feel they are not very good (and seem full of salt), so I'm actually going to call tomorrow to see if a dealer about an hour away has the Duraferm Conception Aid for goats. I've consulted with them and it's a great mineral option for all stages and ages (but they market it for breeding/pregnancy). In fact I was chatting with them today.

    We're also looking into switching feed before the end of the year to a top of the line feed. I just need to find out if dealer can get it for reasonable price or if I have to make a 2+ hour drive (4+ hour round trip) to get it every couple of months since we don't have a dealer here. Obviously it has to fit into our budget, but fingers crossed. It's super hard to get a decent maintenance feed and show feed all at the same place. I'm rambling lol!
     
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  12. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
  13. CountyLineAcres

    CountyLineAcres Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2014
    Mineral Ridge, Ohio
    LOVE Duraferm Goat Concept Aid! I spoke about it on here before. I noticed a huge difference, and the goats actually like and crave it!
     
  14. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I agree, but hard to find anything locally which is disappointing.

    Here's a video of our girls, the only one that isn't bred is the white one with the spot on her back, the other 5 should be bred for end of Dec. We have 2 other adult does and a young doe that isn't weaned - they stay in the barn at night so the little girl has access to feed.


    BTW, they aren't grazing, they are looking for any animal crackers they may have missed lol Normally their hay feeders are full just hadn't filled them up yet - temporary housing until their new barn is done :)
     
  15. Calistar

    Calistar Well-Known Member

    A few years ago when I started looking for Sweetlix locally, one feed store ordered me some VitaFerm Concept-Aid. Is this the same stuff? (Maybe under an older name?) The names sound too close to be coincidence.
     
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  16. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Awesome! that is what I've been hearing about it. I plan to call tomorrow and see if the dealer has it, if so I'll go get some next week as soon as I can make the drive. We're considering switching to Lowe's and/or Purple Vision feed as well, curious if you've tried it. My husband isn't on the same page as me (yet). I'm at the point... if I am going to drive an hour or two hours to go get feed, then I want to try and get everything from one place. Not get regular feed an hour this way, and show feed an hour or two that way. But we'll see. I want them on pellets not sweet feed and that seems to be what a lot of places are offering around here.

    I'm going to guess that VitaFerm Concept Aid is labeled for cattle, from quick glance on the website that appears to be the case, DuraFerm products are for sheep and goats.
    Here is the DuraFerm Concept Aid for goats:
    https://duraferm.com/products/goat-products/
     
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  17. CountyLineAcres

    CountyLineAcres Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2014
    Mineral Ridge, Ohio
    Even if the dealer doesn’t have any, I’m sure they’d be more than happy to order some! May as well give it a try. We had a bag shipped to us to just trial it, and they absolutely loved it. Now, we travel about 45 minutes one way to get it. It’s worth it IMO.

    I have heard many many great things about Purple Vision! I’d say try it. We have only tried ShowRite and liked it. We did switch back to our local mill, since we can speak one on one with their nutritionist and adjust the recipe as needed.
     
  18. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Yep I'm going to call them in a little while and if they don't have it see if they can order me a bag :)
    Yeah I have a friend locally that uses Purple Vision and a lot of the ABGA show people are using it. They seem to have a feed for everything - Young/Growing, bucks, show does, dairy goats and dairy kids, then some basic type of feeds (non show). The feed store we are using now does have an affordable show pellet, that gives great results. BUT.... we had a really bad experience with it last summer with a kid and I am positive it was the feed. He was having weird issues, treated him for everything we could think of, his fecal was great so no worries there. Had a really dusty batch of feed (2nd time I had to return/exchange) and I said no more, and switched to another feed mill.... Almost immediately the buck kid was back to normal again! So weird!
    Well... we had dust issues with that feed mill this spring, so... here we are back to the other one AGAIN :( Their regular pellet is fine, but this batch either has extra corn or the corn didn't break down and form into a pellet? So consistency is a big issue.
    I'm 2.2 hours from Lowe's/Purple Vision, so I'm hoping this dealer just south of Cincinnati can get whatever we'd need without paying a fortune extra for it. She's working on getting prices since they are just starting to sell Lowe's feed. Apparently Lowe's has to come and inspect your facility and ensure you meet their standards, which I think is awesome!
     
  19. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    I feel safest using injectable ivermectin given orally at 1mL per 30 lbs at the same time as Safeguard at 3-4x the label dosage when I have to deworm a pregnant doe.
     
  20. -WBoergoats

    -WBoergoats New Member

    17
    May 19, 2020
    Utah
    Do you wait for them to be bred a certain amount of days for using this? And my vet said to stay away from white dewormers. Is this considered a white wormer?


    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...e-guard-dewormer-for-goats-125ml?cm_vc=-10005