Different sized kids?

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by citylights, Dec 28, 2009.

  1. citylights

    citylights Member

    824
    Jul 3, 2009
    Southern California
    I'm attaching (so proud of my new skill) pics of a doe that kidded recently for me and her two babies -- look at the difference in size! I've seen this before and heard many opinions on why -- what's everyone here think? The smaller one os the buck, the larger is a doe


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. lissablack

    lissablack New Member

    Nov 30, 2009
    They are so darling! I have no idea why they are such different sizes, that happens here sometimes too. Was the doe born first? I haven't got a lot of experience, and so far the boys seem to be born first, but they have also been biggest. I'm wondering if the biggest kid tends to be born first.

    Jan
     

  3. 5andcounting

    5andcounting New Member

    99
    Dec 14, 2009
    No help here just wanted to say that they are adorable!!!! :shrug:
     
  4. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Size difference to me has happened when my does decided to stand for 2 different bucks on the "5 day heat"...the bucks being different sizes as well.

    I have also had my cross does bred with my pygmy buck and have had small pygmy kids...with my nigerian buck and had longer leggy kids. :shrug:
     
  5. GotmygoatMTJ

    GotmygoatMTJ New Member

    Usually kids with a great size difference were concieved at different times or weren't getting as much as the other kid in the womb. Its more common in triplets. That buck is going to be tiny. Probably a great thing for pigmy breeders. :love: Or he may hit his growth spurt and beat his sister in height. You just never know.
     
  6. Lawanda

    Lawanda New Member

    694
    Jun 11, 2009
    West Virginia
    No theories whatsoever, but they sure are adorable!!!
     
  7. citylights

    citylights Member

    824
    Jul 3, 2009
    Southern California
    The other theory I've heard is size can depend on where they attach to the placenta -- not as much nutrition in utero?
     
  8. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    One theory I have heard is (this was with one of my does that had quads) that two of the kids can be growing in the horns of the uterus, (not as much growing space, I guess) while the other two (or however many) are growing in the larger part of the uterus? That's what another breeder told me her theory was on that.

    **Forgot to add that those two babies are ADORABLE!! I just love Pygmy babies. . . well, I love ALL goat babies! :D
     
  9. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    you know, I have no idea either. But I was wondering the same thing. One year Sophie had a Doe that was 7.25 # another doe that was 8.50 and a doe that was 15#, all together. It was crazy.

    By the way, your babies are dolls. :love:
     
  10. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
  11. Iwantgoats

    Iwantgoats New Member

    284
    Oct 3, 2008
    Missouri
    Same thing happened here, had two born and the doe is twice the size of the buck. He looks so tiny. Both conceived by the same buck. I think one just grows and takes more nutrients then the other. Kinda like the runt of a litter.
     
  12. pelicanacresMN

    pelicanacresMN New Member

    I purchased a nigerian dwarf doe a few months ago not knowing that she was the tiniest kid in the herd until I had already paid for her & was there to pick her up. Anyhow, she is still tiny...I have a doe that was born in June who is bigger than she is & she was born in mid March! I've decided to sell her because I'm thinking she may genetically produce future tiny sized kids that take forever to mature? She's nicely typed just really tiny & I figure she may be a set back to my breeding program. So now I'm curious after reading other posts about theories..what would other breeders do if they were in the same position. Would you keep a tiny slow growing doe, wait an extra season to breed her & see what she produces or sell & not take the chance of producing future "runts"?
     
  13. citylights

    citylights Member

    824
    Jul 3, 2009
    Southern California
    Hmmm... hard to tell. I'll bet my buck ends up as big as his sister, but time will tell. The doe in my avatar is smaller than most of my herd, but her babies have been very nice and though slightly smaller, still very proportionate and correct. There's no reason for me to think my little buck would produce undersized babies, as there isn't anything like that in his background. If you like the doe, I'd keep her -- she may be a slow grower! Let's see what everyine else thinks, too!

    (welcome to the site)
     
  14. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    some are slower to grow. I had a runt type doe take till she was over a year old to "catch up" to a same age doe in my herd from different breeding. And now they are both the same size.

    I know RunAround has a doe "alice" who wasnt growing adn now is showing signs of growing -- took months but it has happened.


    Depends - do you like the doelings lines enough? if you sell her will you get back for her what you paid and what you put into her? Is it worth getting a doeling from her? was the doeling from twins, trips or quads? that makes a diferene in growth rate but doesnt mean they will stay small for ever.
     
  15. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    oh I also had quads born back in 2008 and one was not even a 1lb she ended up being bigger then her normal sized siblings at 3 months!

    so dont discount the little ones when first born
     
  16. pelicanacresMN

    pelicanacresMN New Member

    Very interesting! Great topic citylights & it's great hearing everyones opinions. I'm going to keep my little doeling for sale but if she doesn't end up selling it won't be a big deal. I was originally thinking breeding her may not be a good option but maybe I'll give a future buyer an option of breeding her with my smaller buck...maybe I'll even ask for a doe kid back. She is very typey & her mother was supposedly the best milker from the herd that I bought from. Her relatives are sure nice looking. If she doesn't sell by June, I think I've talked myself into breeding her :)
     
  17. This is the runt, and almost every litter or group of babies will have one. In most cases it is the weaker of the bunch. The difference with a runt is normally very much so noticable, they are also much smaller than the others their siblings. Many do not thrive very well, most can not fight or compete with their siblings for food and warmth. When they survive, they normally grow up to be smaller than, and they sometimes develop different personality traits as a result of their stunted childhoods or early difficulties. However, when a runt is given supplemental food and attention, they can develop normally.

    Some people feel that a runt is designed to be a potentially sacrificial member of a litter in nature. With this theory, when the runt survives, great for the group, but if food etc are scarce, the runt will not be missed and very little has been lost as to food and so forth. With some animals the runt may even be eaten by the parent animal or by its siblings as a response to little food or nutrition sometimes even stress. Other then this not much is known about the runts and science is still studying and learning more on this at this time. I however had the opposite of yourself. I had the bigger boys born and the smaller girls. My one doe is caught up. In this case this is not considered a runt this is a member of smaller size due to a posponing of growth. Many time due to room in the womb or things of this nature. When this is the case often the second or number that may be, catches up fast to it's sibling.

    Hope that helps.
     
  18. citylights

    citylights Member

    824
    Jul 3, 2009
    Southern California
    jd, that is interesting, and I know that is true in animals that have multiples in their litters, but do you think it applies to the goats as well? I didn't give my little buck any "extra" care. He did seem to sleep more than his sister did in the first week or so, and I was concerned about him. But while he is still smaller than the doeling, he certainly is developing well and is now very busy chasing the does.

    Now I'll have to keep him just as a TGS science experiment! :laugh:
     
  19. You have to remember that not all cases are the same. You also have to remember that what we are giving for your does and kids is not what would be given in the wild so in a more natural setting what you think it a normal diet for your goats would in fact be supplemental. You may be giving him just what he needs to do fine. But in most cases the runt will be smaller. Remember too that not all kiddings will have a runt if food is not scarce As for is this true for goats, this would apply to all animals with more then one offspring in a litter etc.
     
  20. citylights

    citylights Member

    824
    Jul 3, 2009
    Southern California
    okay, so if a "runt" is given everything it needs regarding nutrition and health care, will it be full size or remain smaller?