Disbudding

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by JamieRuth, Mar 3, 2008.

  1. JamieRuth

    JamieRuth New Member

    33
    Jan 10, 2008
    Bloomfield, KY
    Hi all,

    I searched the board but couldn't find the answers I was looking for so I'm going to ask. I have two Alpine bucklings that we need to disbud but we've never done it before. What is the best age? I have read 3-8 days in one place and 1-3 weeks in another. What disbudding iron do you think is the best? I know TSC carries one but I didn't check the model. I would rather order one through Hoeggers or Jeffers but if the one TSC carries is the same and if I need to disbud now then I would need to get the one at TSC. Do you use any pain killer, if so, what kind? Does everyone use a kid box or can the kids just be held?
    The bucklings are 1 week old today.
    Thanks! :)
     
  2. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    They should be burned pretty soon. Bucks need to be burned much sooner than the does since since the bucks horns grow much faster. This is the disbudding iron I use>> http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/pro ... 6LPH4N49X2 The kids can just be held but make sure you wear gloves so you don't get burnt. I just hold my kids but am looking into building a box in the future. I don't use any painkillers.

    If you can I would try to get someone who knows how to burn show you on these guys first. Its much better if you can see how it is done before you actually do it.

    Good luck :)
     

  3. FarmGirl18

    FarmGirl18 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Oklahoma
    I usually disbud them anywhere from 6-10 days of age, just when I can feel the horn bud pretty well. I use the Rhinehart X30, which can be ordered from any of those places you mentioned. I don't use any type of pain killer and yes I do use a box, it can be done without it though if you have somebody to hold the kid.
     
  4. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    We do bucks as 3-4 days to ensure we do a good job, we use a Rhinehart X50 with a goat tip. I like the X30s better though.
     
  5. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

    155
    Oct 29, 2007
    Northwest WI
    I've got a question, i have a 10 day old alpine buck, and won't be able to disbud him till Wed. ( he will then be 12 days old ) - is there anything special i should ask the nice people that do it for me to do to be even more safe against scurs ? Or if they burn and get the good copper ring will that be good ? I can feel today, his buds are just starting to break through the skin - i wanted to do it earlier, but it wasn't possible. Thanks !
     
  6. JamieRuth

    JamieRuth New Member

    33
    Jan 10, 2008
    Bloomfield, KY
    Thanks everyone!
    I will try to find out if TSC carries the X30. If not I will order one and hope that we do a good job. :)
     
  7. Dover Farms

    Dover Farms New Member

    Oct 16, 2007
    NW Ohio
    MiddleRiver,

    Burning to a copper ring has not worked for us. We just had a lesson from my 4-H advisor this morning and he told us that copper ring burning is a 50/50 crap shoot. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. Best way to do(that we are learning) is to take it to the scull. We've tried the copper ring burning and the horns ALWAYS come back.

    How to know that you have gotten to the scull:

    When you get the the first layer of white after burning through the hair...it's kind of slimey and also a bit yellowish. You need to burn through that and then it is the scull...the scull is much whiter, shinier, and harder. You have to get good presure on the bud as well. Mom disbudded two three day old bucklings from my advisor today.

    Just some of my experience...isn't much, though. :)
     
  8. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

    155
    Oct 29, 2007
    Northwest WI
    Thanks for the information - we are planing on keeping this buckling as a wether friend for my new buck, and don't want scurs. I've also heard about popping of the cap and then hitting it with the iron again ( where the cap was ) but have no idea how to do this. Thanks !
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I had someone go down to the scull and the poor thing never grew hair back, his head was a solid hard plate! So becareful whenyou go down that far you can also damage the nerves. Best if you haven't done it before to look for a good copper ring.

    I hold mine on for 10-15 seconds and sometimes do it again just to be sure.

    I like it do it before they are a week old 3-5 days is best even with pygmies IMO
     
  10. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    On my alpine kids i do anywhere from the day they are born to five days. Some buck kids are BORN ready. Alpines seem to grow a lot faster then other breeds. But for the most part one to three days on alpines is best. Some does can go to five days. The horn base does what a lot of people call spiderwebbing where the base starts to grow out. The more you let it do this the longer you have to burn potentially injuring the kids. the longer the heat is on the head the further you burn and in turn the highr risk of infection.
    Now i have a question, i was asked to do some local peoples goats. I have always done alpines and lamanchas. But these kids are nubians and a pygmy. The nubians are about a week old. I know you wait longer on them because their skulls are thinner at that age. But how long do you wait. I don't want to wait too long but i dont want to miss this window either. I generally check my burn every three to four seconds. If i don't think its good enough i keep burning. But i would rather do intervulls like this then burn too long. I have seen burns that where way too long with tragic results. Another lady came into the store yesturday with a pygmy doe three weeks old. I could feel her horn buds but again i have never done a mini. As long as i can get the iron over her horns which i know i can i feel im safe. They havnt even started to break skin yet. She is so little i hate to do it. But im one of only two people that we can find around here with an iron. How long can i wait to do the pygmy? I dont want to burn to soon but again i dont wait too long. Her horns feel like my alpine doe kids do at about three days old. They are big enough to hold the iron in place but definatly not anything i would worry about not being anle to do.
    thanks for ANY tips!
    beth
     
  11. Dover Farms

    Dover Farms New Member

    Oct 16, 2007
    NW Ohio
    My 4-H advisor said to leave it on for 10 seconds the first time you burn(he doesn't shave their heads) and make sure you have good presure on it. Then you check it and just keep working at it for just a bit at a time until the first cap will come off. Then you have to take off that soft yellowish white cap to the shiny white hard scull. He has "fixed" quite a few copper ring burn jobs that didn't turn out. He even took horns off of two doelings that were two months old and had never been disbudded. It took a while, but he got it done and they only had little scurs that you had to feel for to find. :) These ones he has fixed for us were Nubians and Nubian crosses. As for Pygmies...I have no idea. :roll: :lol:

    This was all that I learned yesterday morning...which was quite helpful. We hopefully "fixed" some others that we had previously done this morning. It is really helpful if you have someone that knows how to do it telling you what is what and how long and such. Hey...I just had an idea...we still have more babies to disbud...that's going to be one of my 4-H demos! YAY! :greengrin:
     
  12. Nupine

    Nupine New Member

    329
    Nov 13, 2007
    South Eastern Ohio
    I say the earlier the better. We had our NUBIAN DOE done when she was LESS THAN 2 DAYS OLD! She is now 7-8 months old and has absolutly no scurs. She was fine during and after disbudding. Our friends held the iron on for 8 seconds each horn using a Rhinehart X30. But our goats that were done later, do have scurs. Because they are bucks whose horns grow faster than does and alpines whose horns grow faster than other breeds, I would have them done ASAP.
     
  13. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    ok, i have a rhinehart x50, so maybe four seconds and then check it?
    As for popping off the cap, i do it with the iron so when i can pop off the cap with the iron i figure i have gottena good solid burn. Along with that copper ring. After the cap is gone i roll the iron over the spot where the horn was. using the side. I always ask people if they want scent glands on bucks done. Though i have heard that it really doesnt matter as they open up again with time. I dont notice a difference in smell with bucks who have had their scent glands burned as aposed to bucks who havn't.
    beth
     
  14. Dover Farms

    Dover Farms New Member

    Oct 16, 2007
    NW Ohio
    Actually...my advisor has a Rhinehart X50.
     
  15. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I have doen pygmies as early as 3 days I think it was. Even with them, earlier the better. At 3 weeks that kid is more then ready to get is horns burnt.
     
  16. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    With the X50's. Do you guys have the pygmy tip for it? If not then it is really nasty when you burn the little ones. My vet(the one I no longer use) had a X50 with the regular tip on it. It burnt all around the poor guys heads and there eyes were just about swollen shut the next day. I felt so bad for them. He didn't even do the job right so I had to buy my own and try to fix what he started. :(
     
  17. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    oo thats bad. I have a doe tip not the pygmy tip. even with a three or four week or kid should i use the pygmy tip? I have seen people use a regular doe tip on pygmy and nigie kids and be just fine. im always really carful about how long i keep the iron on. Have seen too many people hold it too long rather then not long enough. Could that possibly be what the vet did?
    beth