Discussing at 4 weeks??

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by tiff, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. tiff

    tiff Member

    62
    Dec 28, 2017
    We just had triplets 2 days ago and I called he vet today. We have 1 that needs disbudding. I've never done this before and would fee more comfortable with a vet doing so. I called today and she said that we would need to wait until he was 4-6 weeks or until there was nearly an inch of horn there. Everything I've ever read says 3-10 day range. What do y'all think? There are only 2 vets in our area that do this, and I chose her because she anesthetises for it and the other does not. She also said that we could wether the same day but I would fee really bad for the little guy Having all that at once...
     
  2. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    We disbud at 3-7 days old. Easier on he kid, way easier on me. (Last year I had 93 kids to disbud!). Do you live near any goat people that could disbud and show you how? De horning is way more traumatic than disbudding, for the goat and for you!
     

  3. Kath G.

    Kath G. Well-Known Member

    529
    Jul 13, 2017
    Wisconsin
    SO. MUCH. EASIER. when done at around a week or two. We ran into a situation (years earlier when we were having the vet disbud) where the vet was unavailable until around 3-4 weeks old. No problem, they said. It'll be fine, they said. It was really traumatic, because the horn buds were so well established that sizeable scurs kept growing on the edges and having to be re-burned. One baby in particular was old enough that (imo) she remembered the repeated burnings, and went from super friendly to really head shy. I felt terrible. Now as a mature doe she's sweet and friendly but shy with anything being done around her head.
    Now, I think disbudding is an art as much a science; maybe that vet has later disbuddings down to an art form, so my experience might just be a blip. Do you know anyone else who uses that vet for disbudding, to ask how it went for them?

    One other thing: that vet anesthetises for it? Do you mean, gives lidocane at the horn bud site, or do you mean general anesthesia?
     
  4. Goat_Scout

    Goat_Scout Well-Known Member

    Mar 23, 2017
    Louisiana
    One of our local vets anesthetises (puts them completely under) when disbudding kids, no matter how old they are. But aren’t goats very sensitive to anesthesia? I’m always worried about it, and if I can help it, I don’t bring kids to her anymore (she charges an arm and a leg, too).

    We have dis-budded (dehorned, really) multiple kids at 3-5 weeks of age. We dropped the ball with our Nubian buckling this year, so at 5 weeks old, he had to have his horns practically scooped out. The vet that charges an arm and a leg was the only one close to us that would and does dis-bud/dehorn at that age. Since she uses anesthesia, it never really seems to be traumatic for the kids. Our Ajamu had to wear a “bonnet” for 24 hours, but he was completely fine. The only thing that seemed stressful about it was that he was separated from his mama for 4 hours (we dropped him off).
    IMG_1463.jpg
    Personally, I like dis-budding (especially bucks!) at around 3 days old. It’s only like 10 seconds of stress (if the vet comes to your farm) and then they are back with mama, or you. And it’s WAY cheaper. Our vet who came here and dis-budded most of our kids this year didn’t use anesthesia at all, and the kids were bouncing 2 minutes after being dis-budded. :)
     
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  5. Ranger1

    Ranger1 Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2014
    If I had to choose between big horns or no anesthetic before disbudding, I’d go with the no anesthetic.
    What breed? You might possibly get away with waiting so long with slow horn growing breeds like Nubians or Pygmies, but for fast growing breeds like Alpines, no way, Jose. It will leave big scurs that will either be permanent, or may take several more attempts at sawing and cauterizing to get a clean head.
     
  6. Ranger1

    Ranger1 Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2014
    From what I understand, the only reason goats are more susceptible to problems when put under is because they are ruminates and their rumen still continues to work and cud, which can cause the animal to bloat or choke on cud. Young kids whose rumens aren’t developed are not at risk for this. Even adults, if you fast them fo 12-24 hours before, generally do well. Someone correct me if I’m wrong...

    There is a well known breeder in our area who has been breeding goats for around 50 years, who is a vet, and puts all her kids under to disbud and tattoo them-as far as I know she’s never had an issue.
     
  7. groovyoldlady

    groovyoldlady Goat Crazy!

    Jul 21, 2011
    Central Maine
    Where are you located, Tiff? Someone here may live near you or know of an experienced goat farmer near you. I know I would disbud for someone else for a very small fee. I am sure there are others who would do the same...
     
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  8. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2014
    SouthCentralKY, USA
    Just my opinion, but that seems too late to disbud and is veering into dehorning. It also seems too early to castrate. So the worst of both worlds, so to speak.
     
  9. Usually around 2-4 days for a buckling and 4-8 for a doeling. Basically just going by what you can feel on them. We had a buckling we did at 2 weeks and he's got scurs now. And the friends that did it are REALLY good but were a little concerned at doing them that late. He seemed fine for a while and I felt growth the other day. We castrated at 8 weeks here...earlier than that and I think it's not so good for them. I was told 8-12 weeks.
     
  10. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    7 days seems to be “the day” around here. With my alpine bucks though that’s too late. Probably 5 days on them. My laboers 7 days is pushing it and I have to burn a little longer then the boers.
    Put in a CL add, a 4Her might be able to help you or a leader could use your kids to show the kids (hahaha goat kids to show human kids) or see if someone is close to you on here!
     
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  11. tiff

    tiff Member

    62
    Dec 28, 2017
    No, I don't know
    Anyone that uses
    Her for disbudding. She is the "farm vet" in our area and I've heard nothing but good things about her. But I don't know anyone that has used her for disbudding. And sadly, I don't have any goat friends... the only goat people I know have meat goats and don't disbud
     
  12. tiff

    tiff Member

    62
    Dec 28, 2017
    Oh, and it's
    Just local anesthesia. Not going under
     
  13. tiff

    tiff Member

    62
    Dec 28, 2017
    I'm in southwest georgia, Buena vista.
     
  14. Crazy Little Goat

    Crazy Little Goat New Member

    13
    Dec 29, 2017
    Waterford, OH
    Personally, I would wait until at least 8 weeks before wethering him. Also, the anesthetic (if like my vet) is a local that numbs the area, but the goat still feels it, so I wouldn't let that be the sole reason I picked a vet. In fact, as the lidocaine wears off, it can cause itching, and the little guy is more likely to rub and bleed. As to the age at dehorning, I can only say that our fair kids were disbudded early last year, but had to be redone twice dues to regrowth. One was probably 5 months old when I had to have him done, and I was afraid I was gonna lose him, but thanks to Vetericyn, and antibiotics, I did not.
     
  15. TexasGoatMan

    TexasGoatMan Well-Known Member

    281
    Jul 3, 2015
    Dekalb, Texas
    Since I am an ole fart and not into showing goats and grand kids are not into goats, I know nothing about requirements for showing goats. I can only guess that the show goats have to be disbudded to be able to show them. I still like the banding method. I don't get scurs afterwards which is a win for me. All my doelings are dehorned with bands. I wait until the horns are about 5-6 inches long and remove them. Usually in 2 weeks the horns fall off and I have not had any infections or other issues from this method.
     
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  16. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    You can still ask the meat goat breeders if they know how. I have meat goats and didn’t see any point in disbudding butcher kids but I still knew how to do it. And if they sell show wethers they will know how.
    Texasgoatman do you numb them first and then put the band on or just band? I’ve thought about doing it this way but no vet no ladicane plus it would be handy on bucks! It’s been really tough trying to decide if a buck at 7 days old will make the cut if being a sire or not. If they end up tuning into blahs I missed out on selling as wethers :/
     
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  17. Crazy Little Goat

    Crazy Little Goat New Member

    13
    Dec 29, 2017
    Waterford, OH
    Can you tell me how you dehorn this way? We tried it years ago, but we didn't have any luck. Is there a trick to doing this? At our county fair, the market goats are only allowed 1" of regrowth, but I prefer them to be smooth. However, I doubt I will be very picky when it comes to the does I keep, so I am very interested in trying your method.
     
  18. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2014
    SouthCentralKY, USA
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  19. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2014
    SouthCentralKY, USA
    @Crazy Little Goat I've thought about trying this, but I'm hesitant to do the cutting to get the bands down low enough. I know, I know. I'm not squeamish about anything else I've done, so....?
     
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  20. TexasGoatMan

    TexasGoatMan Well-Known Member

    281
    Jul 3, 2015
    Dekalb, Texas
    W
    When I first started banding I did use some medicine to knock them out for a while and it was a lot easier to perform the banding. But since I have been doing this a while and as we all know experience teaches us lots of do and don'ts. I have changed and now I just give a shot of Lidocaine to help numb the skin area. I don't have to watch and wait for them to wake up. Anyway for the procedure I use the clippers and remove as much hair as possible around each horn, give the lidocaine shot and then I treat the horn area skin with iodine. Then I make a very quick slice/cut into the skin in front of the horn. I only want a opening in the skin of approximately one inch. Just large enough to allow the band to fit into the skin opening and that will hold the band in place and not bleed a lot. Before making the cut under stand that you will not be able to get the band all the way down to the base of the skull. So do a practice run with the band on the banding tool to see just how low you can apply the band. I also use a couple of flat screw drivers to help place the band into the skin cut and down on the back side of the horn. I do not cut the back or sides of the horn skin only the front side. Once the band is in place I then treat the whole cut area again with iodine and proceed to the next horn. With a little experience this is a simple and easy procedure to do and sure is a lot better than burning and then having scurs grow back just as bad or worse than the horns. Bucks tend to grow their horns faster than does so they tend to have a hole in their head if allowed to get too big. The does have never had a hole in the skull. The horn just falls off and will be smooth for a while and will eventually grow a short blunt growth of approximately 1/2 inch to 1 inch long but no more. What grows back is never an issue if fact you have to get close to the doe to see the growth. I have a couple of photos of one doe with horns before and now a year and a half after, that I will try to post if you want to see the results. OK Have a great day.