DNA drama

Discussion in 'The Chatter Box' started by Goatzrule, Feb 18, 2021.

  1. Goatzrule

    Goatzrule Well-Known Member

    Feb 7, 2013
    New England
    Hello all, it has been a while since I have posted or contributed. Life has been busy.
    Anyways, those who follow ADGA are aware that there has been a huge push to DNA test animals. Starting in 2023 all breeding bucks will be required to be DNA tested, which I think is great. A lot of herds have already begun DNA testing their entire herd. Now a handful of breeders are under scrutiny, as you can imagine.
    Recently a large and popular Nigerian breeder has been found that animals they have sold are not registered under the correct parents, thanks to DNA. Generations of animals getting messed up due to one lie.
    I believe this is only the start of exposing some unethical big breeders. I can only imagine the panic some are going through realizing they will be found out. Can no longer sell a FF kid under the name of your finished champion?

    Now ADGA has taken a hands off approach with this ordeal. They will provide the tests but the rest is between buyer and seller. Now I think this would make a good discussion on what is going to happen now? Should registrations be pulled because a kids grandsire is not who hes supposed to be? Should ADGA step in and suspend repeat offenders? Fine them?

    Now as far as does, if an ADGA champion gets offered a DNA test and they turn it down should that be put on their record? In cases like that makes you wonder why they would turn it down.
     
  2. Morning Star Farm

    Morning Star Farm Well-Known Member

    415
    Sep 26, 2018
    I think it is great too! I remember one year when one farm had several does who won National Championships DNA'd and they all had the wrong sire listed on their registration papers. Big oops! Yes, some of it is unethical, but some of it is how sneaky goats can be too. Speaking from experience I've had crossbred kids seemingly mysteriously born, because the buck jumped in and out of the doe's pen with no one seeing him. That was a big disappointment, especially because it was one of my best does. It was easy to tell because the kids were obviously grades, but it makes you wonder how often that happens with the same breed and it isn't noticed.
    With the horses I have now, for years, all breeding animals, stallions and mares, have been required to be DNA'd before they can be bred and the foal has to have DNA sent in with registration. It has worked out very well for the breed and I'm happy to see ADGA going this route.
     

  3. I agree with it! I have all my bucks DNA'd already as well as everyone their own G6S tests (not just relying on by parentage unless born on my farm directly from tested parents). I haven't DNA tested my does but considering it.

    I think it is a good step. I have a friend who bought a buck from big-name bloodlines. He did NOT have the correct sire listed when she DNA'd and he also ended up being a carrier for G6S when he was sold as normal. She had been in the process of doing DNA and G6S on her entire herd. She was not happy, I don't blame her. Now she offers DNA and G6S on every kid purchased, which I think is great.

    As far as what to do, I def think the herds that have the issues should be reprimanded somehow. Maybe a warning for the first time (cause we know accidents can happen) but repeated offenders, honestly I would think being suspended from registrations would be fair. Whatever that would be. I agree that why would anyone turn down a DNA test if they weren't hiding something? I haven't heard of the herds that seem to have issues...I'm hoping none in our lines, I don't think the ones I use specifically are in that group but who knows.
     
    Moers kiko boars and AlabamaGirl like this.
  4. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    Some years ago we had a Boxer registered with AKC. He had nice blood line and was used as stud a few times. He had several kids and grand-pups and great grand-pups on the ground. When he was about 6 years old we received a letter stating his papers and all the papers from his line were void. Apparently some one did a DNA test on his brother and found His Sire was not his Sire. It was frustrating to deal with because people came back on us as well as those who own the offspring unaware.
    I think DNA testing is a great tool to help prevent this type of issue but also want to press that care needs to be taken when addressing a possible issue, cause like us, who were in the dark about the fraud, are just as floored about it.
     
  5. Ashlynn

    Ashlynn Well-Known Member

    582
    Sep 30, 2017
    Lutz, FL
    Yes after the mess I’m definitely going to DNA all of mine even though the major herd that was involved did not affect me.
     
  6. Yes! I think when there is an issue, it should be the herd that made the incorrect registration that should be reprimanded. Those that are further down that trusted that registration should not be reprimanded.

    However, the more DNA testing there is, the faster issues would be caught.
     
  7. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
  8. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  9. AlabamaGirl

    AlabamaGirl Well-Known Member

    238
    Jun 18, 2020
    Southeast
    Instead of pulling registrations, why not just "edit" the papers?
     
    Goats Rock and Moers kiko boars like this.
  10. Goatzrule

    Goatzrule Well-Known Member

    Feb 7, 2013
    New England
    I
    in some cases the original sire may not be able to be found. Maybe he past or the original breeder just doesnt know
     
  11. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    765
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    I didn’t see this thread before starting one in the dairy section, but I’m now worried about spending any money on new blood for my herd. I wish they would let ND have a pathway to registering for grades like all the other breeds have.

    It’s a shame that ADGA isn’t letting people who might be affected know. I’ve heard people only find out when they go to register a kid and it comes back denied. Hopefully unethical breeders are few and far between, but the collateral damage is massive. Makes me very hesitant to purchase another buck in the near future.
     
  12. AlabamaGirl

    AlabamaGirl Well-Known Member

    238
    Jun 18, 2020
    Southeast
    That's what I was wondering as well, if standards can be American, why can't ND's?
     
  13. Tapsmom

    Tapsmom Active Member

    293
    Sep 20, 2011
    Litchfield County, CT
    I had already made the jump and signed up to be a PLUS herd this year and received my dna test kits for each of my bucks. Luckily I do not have any of the lines from that breeder in my herd.
    My plan is to dna test any does in my herd that are not out of does and bucks I own. Although due to the cost I will do that gradually.
     
    Moers kiko boars and AlabamaGirl like this.
  14. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    765
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    I’ll probably sign up for plus next year, have been wanting to start milk testing anyway. I think we’ll eventually dna everyone we didn’t breed on farm, and pull hair for all goats just to have in case it is ever needed.
     
  15. This is an excellent idea that we do too. You never know and if you have it and need to prove their DNA, especially if they passed away or were sold, you have it. With the investments into these animals, it's always a good idea to do that, even if they are already tested.
     
  16. Morning Star Farm

    Morning Star Farm Well-Known Member

    415
    Sep 26, 2018
    I think they are still afraid that Pygmy crosses may be introduced if they do that. With the larger breeds, it is easier to tell on sight that they are not purebred, but some Pygmy/Nigerian crosses can look just like Nigerians and unfortunately I know of some breeders who would jump on the chance to do that.
     
  17. AlabamaGirl

    AlabamaGirl Well-Known Member

    238
    Jun 18, 2020
    Southeast
    Is it because pygmys are considered a meat breed?
     
    Moers kiko boars likes this.
  18. Morning Star Farm

    Morning Star Farm Well-Known Member

    415
    Sep 26, 2018
    Yes, they are not dairy goats and not registered by ADGA.
     
    Moers kiko boars and AlabamaGirl like this.
  19. AlabamaGirl

    AlabamaGirl Well-Known Member

    238
    Jun 18, 2020
    Southeast
    I think they should at least make exceptions for the people who (permanently?) lost their papers due to this whole ordeal though.
     
  20. Morning Star Farm

    Morning Star Farm Well-Known Member

    415
    Sep 26, 2018
    I agree with you there. I *think* someone said if it is beyond the first 3 or 4 generations and those have been DNA'd, the goat can keep their papers.
     
    Moers kiko boars and AlabamaGirl like this.