The Goat Spot Forum banner

81 - 100 of 114 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
431 Posts
I've never seen a Nigerian that can milk though more than 8 months...
For milk testing, many Nigerian does stay in milk for 305 days prior to drying off for kidding. And yes, I have seen some that can milk through, but usually they are dried off to give them a rest before kidding. For people who didn't want kids though, they just kept milking. A lot of that is from really strong genetics of heavy milkers who just don't want to dry off. I had a few like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,494 Posts
If Nigerians are 1/3 the size of a standard dairy goat, eat 1/3 the feed of a standard dairy goat, and take up 1/3 the space of a standard dairy goat then why in the heck would you expect them to produce the same amount of milk as a standard dairy goat??? That's just not a fair comparison.
I actually don't expect them to produce as much as a standard goat and I never said that I did. What I DO expect is for the majority of them to be able to consistently produce enough milk to at least be on par with a substandard dairy goat. That is something I have not (yet) seen. I certainly hope to see it in the future!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,127 Posts
Discussion Starter #83
I think the biggest problem with Nigerians and which makes them lose credibility are the pet breeders. In no other breed of goat do you have so many irresponsible breeders breeding just because they can. There is becoming such an overflow of Nigerians and it is quite gross. Pet breeders will breed anything together to get more color, to get more babies. Sure her udder's dragging but she makes cute babies. Most newbies get Nigerians and not put in any effort to actually learn responsible breeding and put no interest in the babies they pump out after they leave their farm.
There are some great ND breeders out there and great goats that compete with the best but the amount of scum that is clogging up the dairy industry is making them lose their credibility. No wonder no one can afford to breed decent goats when you have color breeders selling their kids for $400+. Now dont get me wrong there is a difference between backyard hobby breeders and these kid mills. The hobby farms are still making sure the animals they produce are decent, they are spending within their means to find a good buck even if they dont intend to go to shows with it. They are doing their research and maintaining a good relationship with buyers/sellers etc.
The mill breeders arent, they are the ones who buy their first goat and breed it a month later. They are selling their kids to just about anyone without vetting them first. They have 80 (you get the idea) goats on half an acre but "its fine cause they are a small breed." Giving away kids hours after birth because they just wanted to watch the birth but not take care of the animals after that. Sells every male born on their farm as a breeding buck even if it would be better suited as meat and breeds every doe no matter how she looks/acts. The shows only take this long because every bad ND breeder who thinks its their job to reinvent what conformation should look like brings their herd of 80, with their udder swinging and pasterns dragging.
This is why Nigerians dont get as much respect. Its not the good breeders, there are plenty of good breeders that I would love if they stuck around and have beautiful animals.
This mill behavior would not fly in the standard world, although there are some breeders who qualify. Most standard breeders have no problem culling does and helping new breeders get contacted with good genetics to build up. Checking those breeders that have practices that can be improved.
If you havent gathered, I am very opinionated on this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,127 Posts
Discussion Starter #84
Its not fair to say that they dont also deserve to be in ADGA shows because ADGA isnt just a standard registry and Nigerians had to go through the same process that every other breed went through, the same one the Guernsey went through and every breed to come after it. They are held to the same judging and standard. A well bred Nigerian should look no different than a sannen or alpine but they dont anymore. But to be fair most breeds havent been looking like they should recently. We are creating obese animal and that is a WHOLE 'nother rant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
337 Posts
I breed grade minis. I don't show and my average experiences with show people have been about 75% negative. I do know and buy/sell with some excellent ND show people, love them & their goats very much. I have a steady, proven market, I have repeat customers and I have good goats. And I have an affordable product, regularly available and I stand by for questions, advice, and ocassionally, returns...
I respect people who work and milk and show but it's not for me or for a lot of people. Please do not run the pet owner, the new farmsteader and the pasture ornament people off the rails.
I do agree that many goats are bred that shouldn't be. I have a problem finding non-breeding homes for problem does. I do band 95% of my bucklings.
I have had show people show up at my gate with papers in hand hunting a goat to match for their kid to show. I have tried to be respectful of buyers whining that I should only run registered stock. I refuse to sell a same age unbanded buckling with a doeling.
This issue is pretty much the same in all species of pets & livestock. Whether it is backyard poultry (Extra Roosters!), mini pigs, Mini horses -- heck, all horses right now. Too many people breeding for profit.
Anywhere someone sees a financial advantage someone takes advantage: a coworker bought an expensive French bulldog puppy for her "Golden V*g**a" because he can get $500 apiece for puppies!
It comes down to ethics, compassion and education. All of those need to be taught.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
That's why judging is based on the ADGA scorecard. ;)
@Goat Whisperer , there you are! I have been searching for you and SBC. Why did you leave? Baymule says to tell you that you and SBC are missed as well. I have been searching for posts from y'all on BYH and find nothing. How is Rue? I was looking forward to this year's kid posts and pictures. Is SBC on here? If so she must have changed her name like I did.

Having won BSDIS, BJDIS, and BUIS with my Nigerians, I HIGHLY disagree.

I should mention, these shows are rather large shows, several with 600+ goats entered with herds that have produced National Champions.

I worked my rear-end off to get where I am at. ADGA has a unified scorecard. All the breeds are judged with this scorecard. I can tell you; the Nigerian breed has had nothing handed to them.

Since ALL the goats are judges against the unified scorecard, why should my doe not be eligible to compete for BIS? The Nigerian breed has grown leaps and bounds. I have seen herds make more progress in a short period than standard breeders who have been at it 20+ years.

Of course the majority of the other breeds will out-milk a Nigerian. I will not argue that.

However, if that is your criteria shouldn't Saanens win every BIS? The are the most productive breed after all. I have seen a many does with horribly attached udders from carrying too much milk. Your best udder is not necessarily the one that produces the most milk. I can't remember the last time I've seen a 11 year old Saanen in the ring. I have seen some spectacular Nigerians in the ring at that age, some even winning BIS. I have also seen Nubians sweep the show ring. Absolutely stunning animals. However I've also seen milk records of these animals only producing 7# of milk a day. Production records are important.

Lets not forget that it's been shown that Nigerians tend to have a lower SCC than the larger breeds. Hypercalcemia, toxemia/ketosis are also far rarer in Nigerians VS the larger breeds.

Every breed is different and has its advantages and disadvantages. The Nigerian Dwarf breeders have done a remarkable job, even well renowned judges have said the same thing. Yes, there are some issues right now but I can assure you it is not a representation of the breed. If people think Nigerians are the only breed with DNA issues popping up, they are lying to themselves. The other breeds tend to have a quieter crowd and honestly it's easier for a "breeder" to refund a $500 goat than a $5000 goat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,494 Posts
French Bulldogs can't give birth naturally anymore, She bought a dog that will have to have a cesarean every time lol.
I know, isn't that sad? This is what comes of people breeding too intensely toward certain traits, and rewarding those traits at shows. I've never really been a fan of conformation/beauty pageant type shows. They are what brought us the heavy-set Quarter Horses with teacup hooves that can't stand up to actual use. And Arabians with faces so cartoonishly dished they look broken. And cats and dogs with faces so squished-in they can't breath or eat properly. Why do people tend to gravitate toward extremes? There's nothing wrong with interesting-looking pets, but animals shouldn't be bred to the point where they look like caricatures of themselves and can't even function in normal, healthy ways.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
8,066 Posts
German Shepherd dogs used to stand up on their back legs, Now they look as if squatting all the time. Our family has had German Shep since 1900's! Grandfather had one in his baby photos in 1902. Every dog was standing up square- like a horse! (which is why grandparents loved them- they always rode)..

Hollywierd has ruined so many animals, especially dogs.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,127 Posts
Discussion Starter #91
I honestly think the quarter horse association is preparing for the opening of horse slaughter houses again. It truly is the only thing those horses are good for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,721 Posts
I honestly think the quarter horse association is preparing for the opening of horse slaughter houses again. It truly is the only thing those horses are good for.
You mean quarter horse halter show horses? I've seen plenty of very useful ranch QH
 

·
I'm watching you
Joined
·
22,153 Posts
Huh, they all get shipped to south America right now. Once they yank ivermectin, they will available for sale here again, or at least some people will be eating them out of desperation.
Heck, they will probably be eating anything out of desperation in about 5 more years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,510 Posts
Will this new regulation help get around service memos?
I really hate that I can't put my girls' sire on their registrations just because some stupid human WONT answer my call or messages. It's infuriating that I have 2 beautiful PB Nubian doelings that can't be registered just because some stupid human "doesn't want too"
The ADGA wont accept them as PB even if I got both parents DNA typed and them DNA typed. Why even have them DNA typed? There should be a way around it!
 
81 - 100 of 114 Posts
Top