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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My nigerian Dwarf doe had triplets and I ended up losing the doeling due to the vet disbudding her incorrectly. Does she still need to be registered since the bucklings were born as two of triplets? Just wanted to check before I send in their registration papers. Thank you in advance!
 

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Goat Girl
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No you do not need to register a deceased kid. As far as ADGA will know you may have sold her and the new owners never registered her. I've had plenty of kids that were doe/buck twins and the doe kid was registered but never the buck.

I think ADGA mostly has you put how many kids so people can't try to register extra kids from that pairing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Okay, thank you! It'll be with the AGS, since that's what my doe is registered with, but i'm sure it's the same. Takes a big weight off of my shoulders, so again, thank you! :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you so much, it was a hard loss. It never does get easier, does it? :(
 

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sydmurph
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Hi Nubian Nut, I know it's an emotional time, and my heart goes out to you. I've had some heartbreaking and senseless, preventable losses myself this summer. So I really do relate.

I hope this isn't inappropriate, but if you are comfortable doing so, I'd be interested to hear more about how a) disbudding could result in death *shocked*, and b) what/how was (it) done, what went wrong, does it happen often? I was really surprised to hear that could happen, and then secondarily by a vet. I'll be kidding for the first time and disbudding is high on my priority list; but now I think I need more info. My vet really isn't a goat vet, he's general farm. Now I'm nervous...or at least aware...
Please I hope you don't think it's insensitive of me to ask.
When you're ready, if you're willing :)
Also KSalvagno, I know you're a pro around here so if you want to jump in as well? This is NOT intended to spark a debate on to disbud/not to disbud.
 

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If disbudding is done properly, there shouldn't be a problem. I always give my kids a shot of Banamine 30 minutes prior to disbudding.

I did have a problem one year of several of my kids acting funny and lethargic after a proper disbudding. A shot of Banamine took care of every problem and I haven't had one since administrating Banamine prior to.

Things can happen no matter how experienced the person disbudding is but most of the time it goes just fine.
 

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Sorry for your loss, and no, you do not need to register the deceased kid.

I have heard that if held on too long, the brain can overheat. Also, it is possible to burn through the skull. Everything comes with its own dangers I guess. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thank you all so much for the condolences. :hug:

Also, to Sydmurph, you have not offended me in the least! I'd be more than happy to share what happened to educate others. One of the biggest issues was that my kids were too small to be disbudded and the vet should have known that. When my vet seemed to think they would be fine, she proceeded with the disbudding. Keep in mind that they are Nigerian Dwarfs and the big buckling weighed about two pounds and the doeling and little bucking only weighed about one pound each. I'm fairly new to goats and so I trusted my vet to do what was right for my kids. Boy have I learned my lesson. PLEASE wait until your kids are 5-7 days old before disbudding, and a little longer if they are a small breed. I had to learn this the hard way. my little girl was born on October 3rd and I lost her October 7th.

Now, the timeline of events, shortened of course:
When my vet arrived, she seemed to think the kids would be big enough to disbud and began by shaving their heads. I was surprised that she went right from their into disbudding, as I had her do my Mini-Nubian kids dusbudding earlier in the year and she gave them pain killers but didn't give anything to these kids. She started on the doeling and I knew as soon as she set her down she was fried. Her skull was showing through and her head was bleeding. It was dripping from her right disbudded area, ran into her eye and then was dripping onto the ground. The vet ended up literally cooking her brain and at that moment she was brain dead. The vet went onto the boys and the little doeling didn't move from where she was standing and blood continued to drip. The Momma to the triplets was out and getting a bit upset from the disbudding and getting a bit nosey so I lead her back to her stall and then picked up my little girl. Her eyes were glazed over and she didn't even move. When I set her back down she just stood their with her back hunched, still bleeding. The vet 'jokingly' said, "Better get in there and get a drink! I bet your blood sugar is low!" with a chuckle at the end. Before leaving, the vet wanted to put some blood stop powder on her head and when I picked up the doeling I began to wipe the blood from her eye and there was so much it covered my finger tips. I wasn't really sure what that was all about and thought, no worries, the vet doesn't seem worried or anything about the little girl so everything is fine, right? I couldn't be more wrong. I went down to the barn every hour after the disbudding and she just had a 'spacey' look. She wasn't acting herself at all. Even at 4 days old, she had been exploring and walking around and now all she wanted to do was lay down. I brought a blanket down and wrapped her loosely in it. At about 6:00 pm I went to do another check on her and she was sprawled out away from her brothers. I picked her up and she was limp, but still alive. I rushed for my thermometer but her body temperature was already too low for it to read. I called my mom, bawling my eyes out, and told her something was wrong and to call the vet. Shortly after hanging up the phone she passed away in my arms.

My mother was infuriate, as to me, these goats are my life. I'm 18 and these goats aren't 'livestock' to me, they are family. When My mom confronted the vet about it, she denied it was her fault and was smug about it and even chuckled about it. She repeatedly asked my mom, "What do you want me to do about it?" How unprofessional and rude.

I ended up sending her body to Ohio State University to get a Necropsy done so that I would know her cause of death without a shadow of a doubt. So far, the results are that she had a slight defect in her heart, but not enough to kill her. It maybe could have even been something she could have grown out of, I'm thinking. They also noticed thermal lesions on her brain from the disbudding and I'm still waiting on the final report. Needless to say, I will NEVER use that vet for any of my animals ever again and I would advise anyone I meet to not use her.

On another note, still related, one of my Mini-Nubian doelings she disbudded as always been 'off' since she disbudded her. I always said "Oh, it's just Basil!" but now that this happened, I think she nearly did the same thing to her. She has a knot on her head that's been there since the disbudding and, pardon my bluntness, she's a bit 'slow'.

Now, don't let this scare you away from disbudding. Just make sure you're having someone do it that knows what they are doing. Disbudding goats is not like disbudding cattle, cattle have a sinus below where their horns would go and thus it isn't nearly as troublesome to hold the hot iron on their head for an extra second. With goats, the buds are right on top of their brains and as a kid, their skulls are very, very thin.

If you'd like, I can post pictures. They aren't 'gruesome' so I think it would be okay to post them. I can also post pictures of her brothers disbuddings and you can see where she almost killed my little buckling as part of his skull was showing through afterwards. Let me know if you'd like me to post the pictures as I'd like to educate anyone I can about how serious disbudding needs to be taken. It's not a game, it a kids' life.
 

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Are you in Ohio? What vet did you use? That is horrible. I don't understand why the vet wouldn't have noticed a problem. I would have been giving her Banamine immediately. Wow, what a horrible vet.

Sure go ahead and post pictures.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm going to hold back the vets name until I receive the final report, then I'll go ahead and post it here to prevent this malpractice from happening to anyone else. I'll post some pictures now, thank you for allowing me to do so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Here is her disbudding pictures. The crystalized red is from the blood stop powder. Notice how close it is to her eye and the fact that her skull is showing. You can even see the difference between the disbuddings on her own head.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The disbudding of her brothers. Notice the dark color on the first buckling. The second picture of the little buckling you can see it is lighter in color than the big buckling (first picture on this post) but not as pale as the doeling. Also, note the area of skull showing through on the second picture on his right, the left disbudded area in the picture.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The disbudding iron didn't seem that large to me, I would say the iron was maybe the size of a nickel or quarter, or some where in between. Would that be for a calf? Again, I'm still pretty new to goats and I've never had to disbud anything before getting goats.

Thank you so much! They are so rotten :p
 

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Goatless goat momma
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what a terrible vet! i'm sad, mad and horrified for you! so sorry you had to go through this. :hug:


btw - those kids are terribly cute!
 
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