Doe post kidding infection

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Perfect7, Jun 24, 2010.

  1. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    I swear, I can't catch a break. My doe who kidded yesterday morning had a slight clear runny nose going into labor yesterday morning and mild cough, no fever. Took her and baby to the vet after she kidded and he gave them both a shot of Excell (sp?). She hasn't been drinking much today but has eaten well. Late tonight she seemed a little "off" when I went to check on her and baby before turning in myself and she was really coughing up a storm. She didn't want her snacks. I checked her temp and it was 107.1! Double checked to make sure. So I gave her benadryl, ibuprofen, and four human calcium supplements (just in case of milk fever before coming in and reading that didn't fit) before beginning the process of hosing her down to drop that temp. I got it down to 104.5 just awhile ago and am going to check again in a bit. What I noticed a little odd this evening is she has no discharge that I would expect post-kidding. She did pass the entire placenta an hour after kidding (at least it appeared to be whole to me) but little discharge since. Thought that was odd, but she's been a bit abnormal through this anyway. We're obviously taking a trip to the vet in the morning (again) because I'm thinking something possibly retained at this point or maybe pneumonia. I did try to "bounce" her and felt nothing bounce back. I never entered her during delivery or afterwards because she had no problems. I did spray blue coat on her pooch afterwards to keep the gnats off.
    She's strong and walking very well, just lethargic this evening standing off by herself and wasn't her typical self so I knew something was wrong. She hasn't been drinking much at all, and refused drinking even right after kidding (but ate).
    I guess we'll find out in a couple hours at the vet when they open, but anybody else had minimal discharge post-delivery? When she urinates, only urine comes out (no blood or discharge at all) and it's not much so I'm sure she's also dehydrated now. Eyelids bright pink (wormed yesterday after kidding), normal stools. Also, should I pull the baby and bottle feed until we know what's going on? I imagine she already has what mama has if it's contagious and not retention. Baby nursed for only a few seconds before stopping this evening, no fever but starting slight runny nose (clear), lots of energy still. Looks like I'm going to have to waste all of that nice colostrum I collected. :sigh: And the last two days have been really wonderful with things going well.
    Any suggestions appreciated.
     
  2. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Oh Aimee, I am so sorry to hear this! How scary that this is happening! I hope the vet figures out what is going on with her ASAP and that she will be okay! Poor Karma! Nothing like seeing them down and out :( Lots of thoughts and prayers going your way!
     

  3. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    with the coughing I am going to presume its some kind of pneumonia

    the vet shoudl have sent you home with some excenel because that isnt a one time shot. What was the dosage he used? I have a dosage for excenel of 1cc per 40lbs so she should get a couple ccs

    if you cant get the excenel then I would give her an oxtytetracycline (LA 200, Duramycin Biomycin etc) for 5 days at a rate of 1cc per 20lbs
     
  4. cmjust0

    cmjust0 New Member

    237
    Oct 8, 2009
    Fever...recent kidding...gnats on vajajay...squatting to pee and only peeing a little bit at a time...

    UTI, maybe?

    Just a shot in the dark, but that's what pops into my head right off the bat.

    I agree w/ Stacey on the Excenel...I typically use it @ 1ml/50lbs for five days, and the multiple days thing is much more important than the ml/lb dosage difference.. One shot of pretty much any antibiotic isn't going to prove helpful with goats.
     
  5. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Diagnosis is mild pneumonia and dehydration. I was wrong on the antibiotic, it was Exceed (sp?). She went in and checked her, closed. Couldn't feel anything retained, raspy lungs and mild dehydration. She gave her a shot of banamine and 500 cc of ringers sq, with me to repeat later tonight at home. She wants to give the antibiotic until tomorrow to work good and of not said she will put her on another. She swore Exceed was a one dose-one week med??? I'll have to google now. We've had horrible thunderstorms all week, so hope nobody else pops up sick. Uhg!!!!
     
  6. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    It is never easy... when an animal gets sick ...at least she has treatment started and should mend quickly.... :pray:
     
  7. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I am so sorry, but at least as far as kidding goes - that sounds to be fine. Hopefully the meds will work and she'll clear up real soon. And at least she started getting worse 'after' kidding, couldn't imagine having one feeling so miserable during kidding. She has a good mommy looking after her, so she'll get back to her old self soon :)
     
  8. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    So glad you were on top of this. Good for you. Keep us posted.
     
  9. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Thank you everyone. Karma still refused to drink anything and when baby would try to nurse she was either lifting her leg to push baby off or walking off. I think her nose is plugged so she can't smell baby, and baby isn't making a lot of noises. :( Brought baby in and tried all the bottle tricks after milking out only 2 oz from mom (couldn't get anymore than that). Baby's sides were looking hollow. :hair: Tried to syringe feed, didn't fly. She didn't want to swallow anything. Okay, so then I dropped a stomach tube and gravity fed 2 oz. Keep in mind I've been out of the medical field for 5 years now, so I was like a one-legged man in a.....well, you know the rest. Blew on the end of the syringe and heard bubbles in reply, so it's all good. (Whew!)
    Took baby back to mom, gave mom half a bucket of warm molasses water and the skies parted, angels sang! Karma drank the whole thing and THEN went and drank from the cool water. She began to call for baby, who answered, and they walked off into the shade to rest. :pray:
    Normal temps all around right now. Baby has yellow baby poo and mom has soft stools. I'm giving her probios with the antibiotic now. The correct spelling on the invoice is Excede, and Karma weighs 149 lbs.
    Okay, we're good for at least two hours, right? How much should I be feeding baby if mom doesn't let her the next go-round? The good news is we're both getting better at milking. :roll: Maybe now I can eat.
     
  10. cmjust0

    cmjust0 New Member

    237
    Oct 8, 2009
    Excede...it's marketed as a one-dose antibiotic, but I can't find much in the way of reference to its use in goats. It's ceftiofur, same as Naxcel and Excenel, but it's 200mg/ml instead of 50mg/ml. Pretty sure Naxcel is ceftiofur sodium and that Excenel is ceftiofur hydrochloride...Excede is ceftiofur crystalline free acid, whatever the hell that means.

    Do some homework on it...could be like a 'slow release' version of Excenel, which might be OK -- provided it slowly releases the same amount of ceftiofur goatfolk usually give a goat. With the metabolic rates of goats and cattle being so different, though...I really dunno that it would hang around as long in a goat as it would in a cow.

    Also, if you look at the label on Excede, you're instructed to give the stuff right in the skin of ear or at the base of the ear. I have no idea why, but that's just....weird.


    If this were mine, I'd query the vet *very thoroughly* on how this stuff is gonna work in a goat.. If the vet doesn't know, I'd consider requesting a switch to a form of ceftiofur that we at least have anecdotal dosage rates for...like Excenel.

    Buy a whole bottle of Excenel, if you can. 'Bout $1/ml when I bought it, but it's shelf stable, very handy, and a bottle goes a long way. :D
     
  11. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    So good to hear she is doing much better, good job! Some of my girls dont have much post kidding disharge & some do, some will be fairly dry a few days then whoosh.
    And take care of yourself too!
     
  12. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Thank you, cmjust0! Wow, then she got 1.6 grams of the stuff with 8cc? I guess now I should anticipate massive diarrhea, then. The vet injected it sub q in her neck. The ear, yep,that's really weird! Maybe it's supposed to slow down the release rate or something funky? If she runs a high temp again today (or tomorrow) I'm supposed to go down and get more banamine from them, and tomorrow a different antibiotic. Yes, it would probably be much better to buy a whole bottle than pay per shot, and would be nice to have it on hand. Just read they give swine the injection in the neck. Maybe they thought poor Karma was a pig? I mean, I know she got big and all but :laugh:
    Maybe the mistake came in when I said, "She's a boer". :slapfloor:
    And now I get to look forward to the woosh in a couple days! Oh, the flies are going to love it here. :p
    **The really funny part was when she asked if I planned to eat Karma in the next 60 days before giving her the shot! I about passed out.
     
  13. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    LOL Just between you & me Boer & Pig are interchangable. :laugh:
     
  14. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    My sides hurt! Quit! In all fairness to the vet, Karma has been making a sound that could easily be confused with a pig's noise (is that called a grunt?) since kidding. :p :ROFL:
     
  15. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    Oh yes those grunts! Even one of the 5mo olds does it. Bringing hay this am, "Grunt grunt snort snort" Before she even dug in! Believe it or not her registered name is Lady. :wallbang:
     
  16. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I'm glad she seems to be feeling better! That is great news!

    And the grunting stuff...LOL!!! Our herd queen who is due 'any time' will lay down by the roll of hay where she eats from a hole she formed in it, and she will make the most hysterical grunting sounds LOL
     
  17. cmjust0

    cmjust0 New Member

    237
    Oct 8, 2009
    HOLY CRAP!

    Um, ya...that's a lot. That's more in one dose than I've ever given of Excenel.. Most I've ever done of it would be 1ml/50lbs 2x/day for 5 days to a 150lb+/- goat with a deadly-serious case of bacterial enteritis, and I thought that was a ton. Still only totalled 1.5g of ceftiofur over the course of five days!

    Well...let us know how that works out, I guess. :shrug:
     
  18. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Oh my! Baby got 1/2 cc herself at 10lbs. Guess I need to keep giving the probios for a whole week if it is continual release. Probably don't need to request a bottle of Excenel, then? :chin:
    That banamine sure kicked in good. Karma drank more molasses water and allowed baby to nurse for a couple minutes. I've never seen a thermometer read 107.1 before, so that was a bit intense.
    I read some old posts on here and Karma was sticking her tongue out, hanging out, the evening after delivery. Now that I've read that I should have checked her that evening for a high fever. I thought it was hormonal and she was "acting bucky". :doh: :scratch: (Note to self).

    :laugh: Lady the grunting boer!
    Hoosier, I think your grunting, hole digging, streamer flying girl is gonna pop soon!
     
  19. cmjust0

    cmjust0 New Member

    237
    Oct 8, 2009
    Personally...and this is just me, but...I've never -- not once -- had a goat develop scours on account of injectable antibiotics. Seems to me that a goat has a really good "wall" between the gut and the rest of the body..

    For instance, if you've got one with a bacterial gut infection and try to treat it strictly with injectable antibiotics...consider it dead. Conversely, as best I can tell, if you try to treat an infection anywhere other than the gut with oral antibiotics...not very effective.

    Given what folks say about the nature of goat pellets as primo fertilizer, I can't help but think they actually do a pretty good job walling off even the NUTRITION from their food. LMAO

    Having said that, as for giving Probios...the way I see it, the biggest problem with Probios is that A) it's fairly costly, and B) it's hard to know when to use it and when not to use it. If you use it when they scour, there's a fair to middlin' chance they just clear it all out without it really doing much good...but folks routinely use it when a goat's scouring. And if you use it 'proactively' to prevent a scour when you think they might get one, the fact that they don't scour still doesn't mean it worked...might just mean they were never going to scour to begin with.

    Who knows.. I know to use it after scours I've treated with oral antibiotics, and if a kid gets a little weird in the poo department as it begins to try grass and weeds and all that stuff, it'll get about 5g.. Otherwise, I really dunno when we're "supposed" to use the stuff. LOL

    Other than cost and the potential for waste, though, Probios is generally pretty harmless stuff. That is, I don't think you're gonna hurt anything except perhaps your pocketbook if you give it preventatively here...and it might be 100% worth doing.

    Hard to say. :shrug:
     
  20. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Well, if it's not necessary I will keep it for when it is. My pocketbook can use the break since I've at least paid the electric bill at the vet's this month alone. I'm running on empty in the brain cell department today, and that does make sense with oral versus non-oral administration. I'm thinking of people taking large amounts of antibiotics and getting "scours" :laugh: and nasty yeast infections. I will keep it and give it only *if* she gets diarrhea. For now everything seems to have leveled off so I will hold my breath and pray the worst is over.
    Yeah, I knew I was skating by too easily with that textbook delivery of the cookie monster!
    And Stacey, thank you so much for the antibiotic doses earlier! I wrote them in my medication journal for future reference and plan to go get something besides Pen G to keep on hand.