The Goat Spot Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone else found that they need to give Cooper Boluses (Copper Oxide Wire Particles, aka COWP) once per month to prevent signs of copper deficiencies? Is giving COWP to my Nigerian Dwarfs once per month too much or likely to cause any problems with overdosing copper? I've been struggling with my Nigerian Dwarf goats to keep them from showing signs of being copper deficient, such as fish tails, balding on the bridge of the nose, rough coats, etc...The past year I was reading more about copper bolusing and starting giving my goats copper oxide wire particles. Last summer I starting giving them once every 3 or 4 months. This past winter they were looking deficient (especially 3 or 4 of them) so in March I starting giving them COWP once per month. Now it's been March, April, and May that I've given all my goats COWP. The ones that are showing to be the most deficient I have been giving a full dose once per month, and the others I've been giving about half a does once per month. This seems to be helping. My goats have "Mineral Balancer" and the "Hy Brix Goat" from Natural Way Minerals available free choice at all times.

thanks
 

·
Registered
Kinder Goat Breeder
Joined
·
3,601 Posts
So are your goats looking good on once a month bolusing? It is possible to overdose so I would be careful. The signs of toxicity are the same as deficiency which makes it all harder.

It is possible that you have a lot of antagonist in their diet that could be causing them to need copper that frequently because there is something that is causing them to be unable to absorb it properly. Do you have sulfur in your water?
 

·
Registered
Kinder Goat Breeder
Joined
·
3,601 Posts
I just looked up your minerals that you are feeding and I think it's possible that you don't have enough copper in them. I don't think the Hy-brix goat mineral even has copper on the label, which is bazaar. Are you able to get Sweetlix Meat Maker goat minerals?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
It is possible to overdose on copper. I only bolus twice a year, but I give purina wind and rain cattle minerals which is high in copper, and I also give replamin gel once a week.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,060 Posts
Here is a medical text listing symptoms of copper toxicity, if anyone is interested.
Here's an article I found helpful when I first began learning about copper.
Here's another good one Copper Deficiency and Toxicity in Goats
If you truly are seeing your goats' health decline if you don't bolus monthly, I would suggest looking at all of your feed plus your water source to see if there are copper antagonists that are severely inhibiting their copper absorption, as well as getting a higher copper loose mineral, as stated above. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
I have found that copper bolusing and free-choice minerals aren't enough to keep my goats from being deficient, I need to feed a fortified feed or top-dress minerals, I know top-dressing is controversial, just saying what works for me. I should note that I have well water and live in a deficient area. I am considering trying a different mineral to see if that increases free-choice intake. I am currently using the Premier 1 gold formula premix goat mineral.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thanks everyone. I will respond more later, but I actually got a reverse osmosis water filter for myself and my goats a year ago, which makes pure water with almost 0 PPM, all the dissolved minerals and impurities are removed. FYI, don't believe what they say about "minerals" in your drinking water being necessary. The best water you or your animals can drink is distilled or reverse osmosis (don't get the models which add the miinerals added back in after filtering)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So are your goats looking good on once a month bolusing? It is possible to overdose so I would be careful. The signs of toxicity are the same as deficiency which makes it all harder.

It is possible that you have a lot of antagonist in their diet that could be causing them to need copper that frequently because there is something that is causing them to be unable to absorb it properly. Do you have sulfur in your water?

Yes, they are looking better....hair is growing back in on the two that had the worst fish tails, bald nose bridges are covered in hair.....but then again, they always start looking better in May/June through September when they have lush fresh vegetation...Their eyelids seem darker pink/red as well, which indicates they are better able to fight off excess parasites with adequate copper.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,830 Posts
Can you post some pictures of them?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MellonFriend

·
Registered
Capriculturalist and Goat Slave
Joined
·
1,532 Posts
We were up to bolusing every 3 months at times. We switched to cafeteria-style minerals and haven't bolused in over 6+months. I would say you can put out copper free choice but not without an antagonist should they eat more for some reason. That's why these seem to work we is that all the counter minerals are there should they eat too much of one. However, I do have a friend that puts out copper and selenium free choice in addition to her regular mineral because she suffers with deficiencies.

However, if you have to do it that much, there are antagonists in play. I struggled with that for a while and it was too much of a balancing act. Which is why we switched our minerals. Now we don't supplement anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
We were up to bolusing every 3 months at times. We switched to cafeteria-style minerals and haven't bolused in over 6+months. I would say you can put out copper free choice but not without an antagonist should they eat more for some reason. That's why these seem to work we is that all the counter minerals are there should they eat too much of one. However, I do have a friend that puts out copper and selenium free choice in addition to her regular mineral because she suffers with deficiencies.

However, if you have to do it that much, there are antagonists in play. I struggled with that for a while and it was too much of a balancing act. Which is why we switched our minerals. Now we don't supplement anything.
thank you very much. very informative
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Can you post some pictures of them?
I don't have any recent photos of them, nor did I take photos when they were looking worse. I can try to get some photos tomorrow and post them. Some of their coats are kinda rough too.

How soon should goats in Wisconsin get rid of their winter coats and have a new silky summer coat over their whole body?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,060 Posts
I don't have any recent photos of them, nor did I take photos when they were looking worse. I can try to get some photos tomorrow and post them. Some of their coats are kinda rough too.

How soon should goats in Wisconsin get rid of their winter coats and have a new silky summer coat over their whole body?
Dunno about Wisconsin...some of my Missouri goats haven't finished shedding. It has been a wet spring with several temperature drops, so they are slow to lose their winter hair this year. I expect they'll start sleeking up soon, though
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,494 Posts
"Hy Brix Goat" from Natural Way Minerals
According to the analysis label I was able to locate online, this mineral appears to have no added copper. Could not figure out which Mineral Balancer you might be using though. By any chance would you have the tags/bag from both of these products available? How much copper is contained in both of these products combined?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
another thought I just had....I was mixing the Natural Way Minerals Hy brix goat and mineral balancer together and putting them out free choice. several months ago, around the time when I started giving them COWP once per month, I started putting them out separately free choice. I think there might have been some antagonistic stuff going on with that because they have different amount and types of minerals and vitamins in each one, and they should probably be put out separately so the goats can choose which one they need.....there are so many variables, and changes in fish tails, hair and coat takes so long to change that it makes it difficult to know what is working or what needs to be changed..
 

·
Registered
Kinder Goat Breeder
Joined
·
3,601 Posts
Are there any other free choice minerals that you can get around you? I'm not sure what your giving is the best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
yeah, someone else who lives and raises goats a couple hours north of me recommended Restora life minerals. MRX and Bioblue. They said their goats have really nice and shiny coats and no need for copper bolusing since they started using those minerals. I got a bag of each but I haven't started using them yet because I have so much of the Natural way minerals left.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
just a warning, I'm glad I read this, apparently giving COWP more often than once per 3 months can lead to a buildup in the liver which could be released all at once and kill the goat. anyone know if this is true? I've given COWP once per month for 3 months in a row now to my 4 most deficient looking goats

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,656 Posts
Other than signs of copper deficiency, red brassy color, fish tail, coarse coats...of there any health issues you are dealing with? At what dose was copper given? Proper dose is 1 gram per 22 pounds. It might be that they are under dosed. At any rate, I would not give more. I would look for reasons behind the deficiency. For ex. My well water is high in sulphur. Sulphur is an antagonist to copper, so our battle is having to copper every 3 months. When we brought in water from a different source we only bolused 2 times a year.
Iron, calcium, Sulphur..any of these in high amounts can interfere with absorbing copper.
Do an deep evaluation of all food, mineral and water source. No more copper for now. Let's figure out the why first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,060 Posts
just a warning, I'm glad I read this, apparently giving COWP more often than once per 3 months can lead to a buildup in the liver which could be released all at once and kill the goat. anyone know if this is true? I've given COWP once per month for 3 months in a row now to my 4 most deficient looking goats

I wouldn't freak out about it. Your goats are probably fine. :) but I wouldn't keep dosing like that on a regular basis. It's better, I think, to supply the loose minerals so that they can take what they need, when they need it. It's hard for a human to gauge that.
The lady who wrote that blog post does the For the Love of Goats podcast, and she interviews scientists and experts who are at the forefront of small ruminant research. There are a couple of points she stresses that I disagree with (because I have found them to be untrue from personal experience) but for the most part, I find her content very helpful and informative.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top