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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Down Buck ::Updated::

I have posted this on my facebook profile trying to find advice from my goat type friends and need some more goat savvy advice. My buck has been down for about a week maybe less. He had a high worm load which I initially treated with ivermectin but later used molly's herbals which knocked those little critters on their keisters.

No, I didn't get or do a fecal to confirm but his runs went away and he perked right up after getting the herbal dosing. He is still not getting up on his own and I have fashioned a sling of a sort to hoist him up occasionally so that he isn't laying on his feet all the time. I was only able to successfully accomplish aerial goat today so he has been down a while. ... He is able to move and push with all four legs but the flexibility in the knees and back legs is poor due to them being in the same position for so long. His poops are back to normal, he is eating and drinking well so long as we keep the food in front of him. He tired out after about 10 min of standing today, I don't know if I should be making him stand more than that?

Also, I noticed that he kinda freaks out if he is on his side. His eyes roll back and he just goes limp. Roll him back on his belly and he's fine like nothing happened. His personality is basically just like he was before he got ill, just the immobile version. He still is voraciously hungry for grain and hay when put in front of him. He is a full sized alpine buck before illness he easily tipped the 200-225 weight scales.

I have been giving him Probios and Red Cell for the last day and a half and nutridrench for the last 3 days in addition to a pound of grain and free choice hay. Am I missing something important here? With my husband's job issues it is really hard to afford to have the ONE mobile vet in our area that sees goats come out. Thank you for any advice you might be able to give.

 

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Without the fecal, you don't know if the worms are truly gone. Even if his stool is normal, he could still have a worm load. Even coccidia. I would still have a fecal done.

You need to work on getting him up a few times per day. Massage his legs. I would be giving daily B Complex shots as well.

When did he actually go down? Before or after you treated him for worms?

He should not be on his side because of his rumen. So he does need to be up on his stomach.
 

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My money is on coccidia. If he were mine, I would be at the vets office first thing in the morning. The longer he stays down the less the chance he will ever get up again.
 

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I tend to agree...knowing what you are dealing with is very important so you can treat correctly..A fecal will reveal whats going on worm wise..include cocci in that..fecals do not cost much at all and any vet can do them...if you are not sure one in your area will, call around..
Goats should never be on their side...Keep him propped up with rolled blankets or tarps,logs, what ever you can find...keep him up right...as Karen said at least twice a day work those legs...he is loosing muscle mass and its very hard to regain that....
Check his lower inner eye lids for color...you should see bright pink to red..
Check his temp..101.5-103.5 is normal range
does he chew a cud?
DO you have white tail deer in your area?
 

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Fortified B Complex. About 10cc 3X a day. Thiamine is better if you can get it from the vet when you take your fecal in. 2cc of thiamine 2-3X per day. I would start him on penicillin also. 10cc. You really don't have much to lose. You need to turn him around pretty soon. If he was mine, I would get some Quest horse wommer and give him 400lbs worth. Not everyone would agree on the Quest, but the B Comp is popular around here. Good luck. He looks like a cool goat. Don't give up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you all for the responses. I guess a trip to the vet with a "gift" in hand is in order... sigh. Maybe I can get them to prescribe the Thiamine. With the Pennicillin, do you mean PenG? And is that 10cc once a day, twice a day or what? (Looks like a trip to TSC is in store today as well). What is the deal with Quest? I am willing to try pretty much anything right now to keep him going. He IS a cool goat, very mild mannered for a buck if I do say so myself and we haven't retained any of his sons (intact) ... yet... we didn't need/want father son pissing matches if you know what I mean!!!! Needless to say we will be looking closely at future offspring from this one if we get the chance!!
 

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If you cant get Thiamine..Fortified B complex as enough in it to help.
 

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What is the deal with Quest? !
Quest paste horse wormer is Cydectin wormer. I have used it without problems on goats three months of age and up. I usually dose it 2X the weight of the goat setting the dose with the locking dial on the plunger. The theory with your buck would be your previous attempts to deworm him haven't worked because the parasites are resistant to the wormers you used. Quest paste is usually $10-$14 dollars and is good for 3-10 goats depending on weight and that is cheaper than $140+ for 500ml of the injectable and way easier to find.

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail....=34368451963&gclid=CKuYjeaEt7kCFS3hQgoduEoAJw
 

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What did you find out? I think I would of taken the goat with you to the vet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ok, update: I couldn't take the goat to the vet because I cannot lift a 200 lb goat into the back of the jeep SUV we own. I did however take a fresh fecal sample in and they said there were no parasites found which is good right? They suggested that it might be a mineral or other nutrient deficiency causing the weakness in his legs. As soon as they said that, I was reminded that they haven't had good access to the goat mineral since I feed it loose and this stupid rain keeps turning into soup and then the goats won't touch it. We also recently opened up some wooded area for them to graze and so they aren't getting as much of a grain ration as they did in the past.

SO... ideas? I got a bag of goat mineral at TSC today and some alfalfa pellets to add to his diet to get some good stuff into his system in addition to the pound of grain and free choice hay that he has been getting. on a positive note, when I hoisted him this afternoon he took some weight onto his back legs while kneeling to gobble up the yummy minerals... any other suggestions?
Many thanks again!
 

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Did you get BoSe from the vet?

He needs to be copper bolused and a shot of BoSe (selenium). At this point, the mineral won't be enough. I would also get Replamin Plus and give him 5g once a week. This is all on top of putting out mineral free choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
He was upish on his back legs for about 15 min before he tuckered out and complained enough for me to let him down again. Should I be encouraged that he is still trying?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I have BoSe, how much in the shot? also where do I get the copper bollus? This is the first time I have run into any of this. What is Replamin plus? I have several nutritional energy and whatnot supplements I am giving him already....
 

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I'm on my phone so can't give websites. Do a search on Replamin Plus.

BoSe is 1cc per 40 lbs SQ.

You can order copper from places like Santa Cruz or Jeffers or Valley Vet. Santa cruz and jeffers offers it in goat size
 

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He still needs the Thiamin or Fortified B Complex. Any time a goat is down or his digestion is not 100% they need thiamin.
 

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It is crucial to get a fecal done. What is his temp? Is he super anemic, white gums? If so, he may need more than just red cell treatments. He is at a crucial point, if he has white gums/ eye membrane color. That alone, can make him really weak like that. We must get a fecal for worms and cocci, so we will know, if that needs addressed and has been solved. Stop the grain, it will help shut down his rumen, if he cannot move around. Is his rumen still working? Massage his rumen(left side). How much cushion is under him? He should have a good amount. If it hurts and is digging into him, he will want down and not stay up as long. Get him up in the sling, here and there, throughout the day. It will help him. He does need rest too, so on and off is great. Don't let him go on his side, his lungs may fill with fluids and he will just give up. As you seen happen, you must of caught him early enough.

Wit Bo-se don't overdose, it is best to under dose.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Got a fecal done this morning, no parasites found. Temp normal, and yes super anemic, white eyelids. Ordered Thamine (vetserv) and copper bolus so that will have them next week. His rumen is fine, making lots of noise and his poops are normal. I will see about adding some foam cushioning under the sling next time I put him up. He has been getting nutridrench, probios, and some energy gel goop the lady at TSC recommended. I also added a hand full of alfalfa pellets to his grain ration today to dilute the amount of grain he is getting. He has full access free feed of hay and he eats that and chews his cud and acts normal.... except for the fact that he is down, not up and walking around. I ordered the thiamine, and replamin and will be doing bcomplex and Bo-Se tonight while I wait for my order to arrive. The vet would not prescribe the Thiamine without me bringing him in which was just impossible :(

I saw somewhere someone had some success with putting their animal over a bale of straw or hay or something to support them from the bottom instead of the top.... what do you all think of that ? esp if I could rig it so he couldn't fall?
 
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