Elastrator bands for dehorning

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by horseysale, Oct 9, 2008.

  1. horseysale

    horseysale New Member

    3
    Oct 8, 2008
    Hello,

    I just put the elastrator bands on my goat a few days ago. He screamed bloody murder for the first hour we put them on him & then just sulked for the next two days. We felt so bad for him. :cry: Now it's like we never did anything to him. Head-butting everything in sight :veryangry: & just acting normal. The bands haven't moved at all & everything looks ok. How do we know they are working?? :? Anybody have any experience with using them to dehorn? :?
     
  2. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I have done this previously and I have two that have bands on right now.

    You want to change the bands every week (two weeks at the max) otherwise they loose the elasticity (sp??). It can take up to 12 weeks for the horns to finally "die off" and either be broken off or fall off. I would reccommend to have a disbudding iron or at the very least blood stop available for when they do come off. Alot of times they break them off before they are ready and there are some huge arteries/veins in there and they will bleed. Most of the time it won't cause to many problems - but if broken off WAY early - that can cause problems.

    If you have any other questions - just let me know! By the way Hello! :wave: and Welcome!
     

  3. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    if you're going to dehorn - why not go the surgical way and get it over with?

    Samwell was partially dehorned by the elastrator bands - except it didnt work so now he just has permanently deformed horns.

    IMHO just take 'em off or dont :wink:
     
  4. horseysale

    horseysale New Member

    3
    Oct 8, 2008
    We were actually going to use the wire saw (he's not a baby), but when I researched it on the internet they said the bands were easier on the goat with very little blood. I just seen a 3 yr. olds goats cut with the wire saw & as they were cutting it cauterized (sp?) the blood vessels & there was actually very little to no blood, but I heard it always doesn't go that well -- heard they can bleed to death and I love my goat like my baby. Got me scared to do the saw. Is it normal for the goat to act like nothings wrong after the first couple days after the bands are put on or should they be slightly tender all the time? Also -- I wasn't aware it could take 3 months...thought it took 3 weeks --- now I'm doubting myself for using them & wondering if I should have just went the saw route. I would never remove them but he gets pretty violent using them horns. He'll run up behind you (playing, of course) & just head but you in the *ss...he thinks it's fun but believe me --- it's not. Also getting pretty nasty with the horses & some of these horses are worth a pretty penny.... He's really one of the sweetest goats, but just knows how to protect & use those horns.
     
  5. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    We did Pickles horns with the bands and it took exactly 3 weeks for them to fall off. There was some bleeding but not a lot. She did have a major headache for 2 days but after that she was fine. When the first horn came loose it was still connected by a small amount of skin. We used Wonder dust to seal the wound and she was fine. She still has a few black spots of blood and wonder dust as she won't let me wash her face. She still knocks the scabs off periodically but doesn't seem to notice. It is so much nicer now that she can not get stuck in the fence.
    crocee

    ETA: The banding process takes as short 3 weeks to months. The younger the goat, the shorter the time period. Pickles is 6 months old. For larger horns or older goats it will take longer.
     
  6. Amos

    Amos New Member

    Oct 2, 2008
    Minnesota
    Sawing? I don't think so.. As far as I know.. goats have way too many nerves and vessels etc. in their horns, sometimes they can die from trauma and stress when you cut them, the way I look at it, it'd be like cutting off your leg. And I wouldn't wanna do that too a goat (now maybe I'm being too protective but thats how I seen it) For our goats we use a burner when they're 1-2 wees old.
     
  7. helmstead

    helmstead New Member

    772
    Oct 1, 2008
    Alfordsville, IN
    Just thought I would post some pictures of this...

    We're trying it for the first time on this Pygmy doe, Rebeccah. Several reasons we're doing it - she's witchy with the other does and is a brick house, so I don't want her hurting anyone. Also, the broken one simply wasn't pleasing to the eye. And, I wanted her to be more marketable when I sell her next year. (she's for sale after kidding)

    Anyway...it's gone smoothly until today. She butted another doe at breakfast time and caused the half horn (her left) to bleed pretty steadily for a good 2 hours. Maybe lost 1/4 cup of blood in all, but it looked knarley. The right horn is now laid completely down on the back of her head, I expect it to fall off any time now.

    Here she is on Halloween:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    you can use a saw to cut down a scur but never to cut off a full horn if you do not have someone to cauterize the vessels so they dont bleed to death.

    oh and you do need to change the bands every week I think it is so that the process continues
     
  9. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Stacey is correct that you want to change bands weekly. They tend to "stretch out" so they don't work as efficiently if you don't switch them periodically.

    I have 2 does that I have banded right now. Each has lost 1 horn each. The younger lost the first horn about 2 weeks after placing the bands, and the other lost her first horn about 3 weeks into it. I had to use the disbudding iron on the older one - but the other didn't need to. I really use it to kill the nerve endings so that it doesn't hurt so bad.

    Kate - I would say that you could definately hit the horn that is laying back with the iron to make her more comfortable. If it is just being hung on by a little tissue - then go ahead and clip it and cauterize it while you have the iron out so that she doesn't catch it on something while you are not around :)
     
  10. helmstead

    helmstead New Member

    772
    Oct 1, 2008
    Alfordsville, IN
    Eeek I can't even imagine the trauma to the goat if it were to have a horn removed by a saw.

    As far as the band replacement, I've not found it necessary with this doe. I took lessons on doing this with a respected ND breeder near me who has lots of experience with the practice. He did mention that on larger horns, you might need to place a new band below the old one a few times. With Becky, the original bands are doing their job, and in quick order despite her age. I do have chemical cautery to use in the event of a horn coming off early - but don't want to use it unless absolutely necessary because of the close relation to the eyes. Really I feel it's going well. Blood loss has been minimal, pain has been controllable with Banamine.
     
  11. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    That is great that she is doing so well for you :thumb:

    My first doe that I ever did this with was a pygmy. I felt so bad for her.

    Now I am doing 2 Boer X girls. They are 4 and 2. Each has 1 horn off and the other ones are almost off. They were so stinking aweful when they had horns. they were hurting my other goats and pitching the kids across the pens. Thank goodness I was out there when the older of the 2 pitched a baby that had a mouth full of grain and it aspirated some and choked.
     
  12. helmstead

    helmstead New Member

    772
    Oct 1, 2008
    Alfordsville, IN
    One month, three days...and horn #1 has been removed. Left a less-than-dime sized hole into the sinus which I've glued a patch over.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I do not believe in dehorning at all ......Horns also serve as cooling mechanisms...... it is their radiator to keep them cool in the summer.......but I am in a warmer climate than some of you may be in.....they are also a way to protect themselves from preditors.....and it is a way to hold/catch them LOL.....I know there are pros and cons.......But please do not attack me......I know some of you do believe in dehorning and I respect your decisions....don't get me wrong.......this is just how I feel......and some other's may as well.......but I just needed to get it off my chest......OUCH.... :)
     
  14. helmstead

    helmstead New Member

    772
    Oct 1, 2008
    Alfordsville, IN
    All done, 5 weeks total.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I see a smile there .. :) .that is now a happy healed goat.. :)
     
  16. helmstead

    helmstead New Member

    772
    Oct 1, 2008
    Alfordsville, IN
    :greengrin: She even said, "Cheese!"
     
  17. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Toth,

    I had to make the decision to dehorn 3 goats that came to my property as adults. The first one, Daisie Mae, is because she would get stuck in the fence within minutes and the others were beating the holy snot out of her.

    The other two, it took me almost 9 months to convince myself to band them. They are my Boer X does. The reason was because they were hurting my other goats. They knew that they had horns and the others didn't and I caught one kid that had been thrown with a mouth full of grain and choked and another had a tear in her side. I just couldn't allow it anylonger as they are so much bigger then my Nigerians.

    i disbud all babies born unless they were purchased before disbudding and then i will not if they ask me not to - however, to show - they have to be disbudded - so I have to do what I have to to make the kids sellable. Although i hate doing it, it makes them for better homes - most of the time with very small children.
     
  18. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I totally understand...Allison :) ..It's OK .....I respect your decision ...everyone has there own beliefs and ways.....It is just something ....I personally ....do not do.......Different people have there reasons for doing it......no worries :)
     
  19. Amy Goatress

    Amy Goatress New Member

    728
    Oct 1, 2008
    We disbud all our goats too plus dairy goats you can't show with horns but I don't show but do have little ones that visit ocasionally.
     
  20. Misti

    Misti New Member

    2
    Dec 21, 2012
    I have two older does with full horns who I have banded today. I am nervous but trying to trust the process. I will update as we go along.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012