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Discussion Starter #1
First off, we're on a mountain top, there are no livestock vets around, no one to make house calls, and very little agriculture in our area. Please don't say "take her to a vet". That's not remotely helpful.

I've got a Nigerian dwarf doe with kids 2-3 weeks old. This afternoon I noticed blood on her backside. Upon inspection she's got dark diarrhea stains and blood crusted in her bum fur and tail. It's all coming from her rectum, none from her vulva. Her vulva is clean and clear.

She's been acting apparently normal. No vocalizing, frothing, physical issues (spasms, weakness, etc). Udder is full, appetite seems healthy, she's alert, moving about plenty, not lying down or sulking. Belly looks marginally distended as of this evening though.


She lives on a steep hillside with big boulders and lots of brush; goatie paradise. Lots of exercise. She's been on nearly pure fresh mountain forage for the last 2 months. Mostly conifers, willow, huckleberries, bear grass, etc. All the goats have been doing excellent on it. They've recently started getting free-choice no-spray alf/grass hay. She has supplemental free-choice minerals made locally + a cobalt block. She's also getting grains (whole oats, barley, peas, and milo at 16% protein).

What I'm suspecting foremost here is possible plant poisoning. The rest of the herd just got moved to a new pen but we haven't moved this doe because we like having the kids around and don't want her and the tinies in with the big boys and the rowdy piglets. We had to deconstruct her pen though, so she's proper free-ranging now. She takes the kids down to the stream in the draw below her hillside for water, but mostly stays right here where we can see her. Down in that stream bed is a whole different ecosystem of plants. This is the only dietary variation she's had from the other goats.

The only toxic plant I am actively aware of here is false hellebore, which I've been ripping out when I find it. I saw a goat nibble it once and he didn't have much interest after that, the others have all seemed to ignore it. I've read about false hellebore poisoning and I haven't read anything about hemorrhaging or internal bleeding. I've been trying to find other poisonous plants that cause this symptom but everything seems to have "spasms, twitching, frothing, listlessness, dis-coordination, nervousness, etc" as main symptoms. She is acting mostly fine; just tail twitching/swishing and feeling guarded about her udder. The kids are fat and happy with full tums, but I've been watching her kick them away from her udder this afternoon.

I guess I'm looking for 3 things;
1. Could this be something other than plant poisoning, and if so, what?
2. If it sounds like plant poisoning, what culprits should be investigated?
3. What might I be able to do for the gal at this point, treatment wise?

If it's a plant I need to identify the possible culprits. This draw is an area where we were hoping to fence off for the herd, have them clear the brush by the streams. I am not about to put the whole herd down there if there's something toxic that they are tempted to eat. I normally trust my goats to avoid toxic plants, since I keep packers. This is the first potential poisoning issue I've seen. Any help is appreciated. I'm very worried for her, but a bit hopeful that she's not (yet) showing physical lameness or illness...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's a very good suggestion, I'm surprised I didn't think of it! I should have some Takasumi stashed away somewhere....!
 

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What mountain area are you in? Im with them, I would try the activated charcoals or something to help her out. Electrolytes for sure.
 

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I would do charcoal, then a few weeks later if all is going well, dewormer/coccidostat. parasites/cocci can cause blood in the stool
 

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Bloody dark stool and blood, could be cocci. I would treat for that right away.

The only reason I say that, is because it was mentioned, no frothing at the mouth ect and acting normal. If she had toxins she would be ill and frothing ect.

Her kids being 2 to 3 week old, can also get cocci.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I appreciate the replies. All good suggestions! Thank you.

We've been keeping a close eye on her and helping her along. I was very alarmed and nervous about a poisonous plant issue, but now I'm rethinking. She's on her feet still. She's coordinated, nursing the kids, maneuvering the mountain like a champ, and has a healthy appetite. Zero signs of poisoning. No lethargy, spasms, salivating, etc. I'm extremely relieved but still cautious since I don't know the exact issue.

There was a bit of fresh blood staining on her bum today though. She has so much area to roam I haven't actually witnessed her poop or found a pile to inspect. She's losing weight very quickly, today I noticed I could see her ribs. That's unlike her! Her belly still looks marginally distended; it's hard to tell. If she was in good health I wouldn't say it looked funny, I might just be looking at her too hard. But she IS taking a "hunched" stance that indicates internal discomfort.

I will deworm her. I haven't had to deal with worms yet since we moved up here. The other goaters are healthier than they've ever been! Any suggestions on the best dewormer for a nursing doe? We intend to start milking her when we sell the kids, I don't want to use something that transfers to the milk if it can be helped. I used to rotate Safegard in the spring and Ivermectin in the fall (if the goaters had worms).
I will also be focusing immune support.

My understanding of cocci is that it requires the goat to ingest feces, am I mistaken? That seems unlikely, though I'm not here to doubt sound suggestions. I did have another person strongly suggest hemorrhoids since she recently gave birth. I don't know if that's a thing. What do you guys think?

Kids are strong, healthy, bouncing around with full tums. No signs of the runs or any health complaint.
 

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I don't have the experience with goat health issues to feel comfortable advising you, but I'll share what little I know. Cocci would still be something I'd seriously look into. Do you have her in an area where you also let chickens free range? I had one annoying chicken that kept getting into my goat pen and nesting in the hay feeder.... ended up with Cocci in a few doelings. Also kids will eat off the ground which is where Cocci is found, especially in damp areas, if I am remembering correctly. The mom's clean up the kids.... so she doesn't need to necessarily eat poop to pick it up.
 

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One more thing... my doelings never had diarrhea. But the berries had an unusual shape to them. They had a point on one or both ends and weren't perfectly round like usual. This is a sign of Cocci. So try and check her kids poo and see if you notice any odd shaped berries. I'm kicking myself for not snapping a photo of it now.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Update: We went into town and I picked up some fresh Ivermectin. Iver didn't say anything one way or another about milk, whereas Safeguard has an explicit warning not to use on does in milk.

Dojo is doing apparently well. She only had the liquid poo the day I posted here. Her feces is now pelleted again, although it has some funny colors and shapes to it. It's got some milky appearance/color in with the normal dark color. There appears to be no more blood but last night the naked skin on her back side was flush red; from afar I panicked because I thought it looked like it was coated in fresh blood! No, it was just extremely flush skin. I haven't taken her temp but I assume she might be/may have been feverish to be so flush.

There's no other livestock in this area; just goaters. The old pen area was about a 400' circumference circle, now she's free ranging as much as she wants on the mountainside.

Her appetite is still robust and her constitution seems solid. Watched her sprint up a shear hillside with the kids this morning. Kids have no signs of illness. I haven't gotten to sneak a peak at their poop. If I can actually catch them in the act I can go inspect!

Cocci could certainyl be a culprit; they're grazing several acres (that have never seen livestock before) of lush brush by themselves, so the contamination factor is at an extreme minimum. I've just never seen cocci like this. I guess I've never seen it in a goat though, only in chickens... Hm...
 

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Slippery elm bark can help soothe the gut as well. Probiotics can help her get back to normal after you've treated for what ever this is. I hope she improves.
 

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Cocci doesn't always show scouring and can show up at anytime because of stress.
"All" goats have a borderline case of it and when stressed, the numbers climb to an unsafe level, in which may show, blood, dark scours, lethargic, stomach pain, hunching or rapid weight loss in adults and kids.
The longer cocci is left untreated and/or ignored, the goat will not be able to absorb good nutrients, to be healthy ever again. Kids will not grow.
Cocci destroys the stomach lining badly. Cocci has changed and does not always show basic signs.

Worms can be picked up by any goat, as well and when goat kids are 2 weeks or older, they can get worms and cocci.

If you cannot get a fecal, it won't hurt to give mama a cocci med and worming.
Check her eyelids first.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Okay, back to the drawing board. The first day I saw blood her vulva was clean and clear. Today there's more fresh bright red blood and it IS coming from her vulva!

These kids were born June 30th.

Now I'm really thrown for a loop. I gave her back side a good sniff and I don't smell anything rancid or infection-y. The blood does not look milky or cloudy. It's enough to be flicking around in her hair but not like a big seepage of blood. I didn't witness her birthing, but I was there within 20 minutes of it. Kids were dried off and nursing and no goo to be found, so I assumed she ate it already. Surely she couldn't be carrying undischarged placenta or something 20 days later?!

She's acting 100% normal today, not really expressing a hunched posture, not feeling guarded about her udder, and she's jumpin and climbin' all over the place!
 

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My doe had a c-section and retained the placentas. For 30 days after the birth she discharged bright red blood (a small amount) and dark colored blood. She was not acting like herself until she completely cleaned out. I kept asking the vet about the bright red blood and he told me not to worry. She is now 6 weeks post birth and finally acting normal and no discharge. So yes they can clean out for that long after birth.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I have no bucks and she hasn't been in with the wethers for probably a week now.

Karen- that's interesting! What were her symptoms?

At this precise moment, my only real complaint about Dojo's health (bloody discharge and funny poop aside) is that she's lost quite a bit of weight. But she was full of vinegar today! I'm perplexed :s

So maybe cocci and retained tissue?
 

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Well it’s been 3 weeks since she has kidded. Bloody discharge is not uncommon starting roughly a week after kidding. But let’s get down and dirty here. Smell the discharge, yes it is gross but make sure there is no bad smell, basically nothing hinting at the smell of death. Take her temp. What color is the blood? Bright red is usually fresh blood, dark being older.
 
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