Extremely Concerned - need advice -

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by kelebek, Jan 23, 2009.

  1. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I am stuck in a really hard situation, and am looking to you all for help if I could, please.

    What would you do in this situation??

    I have a friend who has goats here locally, well I call her a friend, but more of an acquaintance. I am not really sure how long she has had goats, but she called me earlier this week asking me some questions about her goats.

    She said that she had a couple die (kids and 1 adult) and is unsure as to why they died. This all happened in the last couple months. I asked her if she had changed foods, were they acting normal, you know - all the standard questions, and she said there was no change in anything and then they were just gone. She is so worried as she has more kids to be born and is scared - but refuses to listen to me that it sounds like cocci and could be in the ground and needs to start treatment on everyone, including the kids when they are born. She just keeps saying that she worms - but doesn't comprehend that it is a different medication and that it is in the ground and takes more then one dose to clear it up.

    My concern is - is if they are dying now - how are these kids ever going to make it once born? And what about the people that are purchasing these kids and exposing their herds or have the kid die once it leaves because they don't know it has cocci.

    I want to get through to her, but I don't want to hurt her feelings or make her feel bad - but I feel so aweful for the goaties. I like this lady - but I don't want to seem like a bad person......

    I so hate confrontation! Any advice would be awesome!
     
  2. KikoFaerie

    KikoFaerie New Member

    162
    Jan 21, 2008
    So. Central Kansas
    Maybe if you explain to her that cocci is something all goats have, but it is only an issue when it gets out of control? It sounds like she is taking offense at your advice, maybe taking it the wrong way?
    Would you be willing to take a fecal to a vet if she let you? Maybe hard evidence would convince her?
    Just some suggestions - tough situation when you don't want to offend but want to help the poor defenseless goats!
     

  3. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I have thought about just giving her the meds and asking that she try it. It only cost me like 14.00 for the packet and it makes WELL over enough to treat her small herd 4x over.

    I just really do not want to cause a problem, but I can't sit back and watch more helpless animals die over "pride" you know what I mean?
     
  4. KikoFaerie

    KikoFaerie New Member

    162
    Jan 21, 2008
    So. Central Kansas
    Yes, I sure do! Had a similar situation a while back with someone wanting wean month old does and breed them at 3-4 months!
    You are in a tough situation, but your solution sounds like it may be the way to go. Ask her to give it a try!
     
  5. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I had bought a second package to keep on hand for my farm - but I could give it to her and tell her how to break it down so that she can get multiple uses out of it
     
  6. HollowbeadRanch

    HollowbeadRanch New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    NW Alabama
    hhhhhhmmmm.... I have never had to deal with a situation like this... I hope that you are able to get through to her eventually for the sake of her goats, her furture goats, and her future customers. Me personally... I have never had to deal with cocci before, but after some of the horror stories I have heard I have decided that my new herd will be treated as a precaution every Spring and Fall. Honestly, if this person was a responsible goat breeder she would realize that she has to do something or it won't stop... and as you said... what about the poor unknowing customer who has the misfortune of finding her farm and purchasing a kid from her that could possibly be infected?? This has always been something that terrifies me everytime I go to purchase a new goat... what have the goats been exposed to, is there anything the breeder might not be telling me, will I be risking infecting my own herd.... all just some of the MANY questions that go racing through my mind, and it seems like this breeder is one of the exact reasons why those questions do go through my mind. IMHO, it is a very irresponsible decision on the breeders part to not accept your advice and treat her goats. Cocci is a controlable disease if properly medicated right? Has she tested to see if the rest of her herd is infected?? I really hope that you can get through to her and make her see that she has to do SOMETHING about it!! :hug: Good Luck! :hug: I wish I could help you more!
     
  7. HollowbeadRanch

    HollowbeadRanch New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    NW Alabama
    WOW! you two post quick!! LOL! I posted and BOOM there were 3 other posts!

    What Donna is suggesting might do the trick! I just hate to see the poor goats AND any new owners suffer :sigh: Let us know what you decide to do and how it turns out! I had a similar situation with a lady over-medicating her animals.... pulling babies when they didn't need to be, and all sorts of stuff but I FINALLY got through to her... Atleast somewhat..
     
  8. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Thanks - I will talk to her this weekend and see what she says. I am off to help someone trim hooves and draw blood - maybe I will stop by her house on the way - since I have the meds with me in my "goat care kit"!
     
  9. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    You will find a way to tell her what she needs to hear. I realize you are in a tough spot, I dont like "confrontation" either but it can be done in the spirit of education & concern for the goats, not to mention her own reputation which is clearly at stake here; it rides on the health of her herd!
    Can you find some print outs of cocci and hand them to her?
     
  10. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    That is a tough one. I do know that if a person is stubborn and just being bullheaded about something they refuse to recognize, theres no getting thru to them at all....and in the end it is the animal that suffers. I would offer the meds...and directions as far as it's use...ask her to do it as a "trial" and treat them all as well as continue with it and see what the outcome is....if it's cocci run rampant on her land, this will tell her and she can do what she needs to for management from then on....if she chooses to.
     
  11. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Thank you all for your help. She was not home when I drove by - but I will keep you posted
     
  12. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

    131
    Jan 17, 2009
    Montana
    What makes you think it was cocci? Young kids are succeptable, but it usually doesn't kill an adult goat unless there is some underlying thing going on with the goat. If the goats were just suddenly "gone" I'd suspect pneumonia or enterotoxemia. People who aren't really tuned into their goats can miss the early stages of these diseases and will come out to a sick or dying goat. If you know how to fecal, maybe she'll be open to you checking for cocci. If she continues to lose goats, it would be worth the effort to get a necropsy.
     
  13. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    I have never been able to understand why a person would ask for advice and then not take it. It's a simple thing to collect a stool and have a vet determine if it's cocci. I'd be nice about it, try to get her to either test or treat, if she still refuses I'd say, "well, now you've brought me into this, I see animals not being treated, so now I have to call in the Humane Society to make sure these goats are not being mistreated". Sorry, but I have to sleep at night... :shrug:
     
  14. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    The adult that passed was actually a young one - not quite a year - but the others have all been real young.

    The reason that I think it was cocci, was there was some diahreah, she said that she has never treated or done a preventative for cocci, she said on some that she has now, the eye lids are a little pale, but they all seemed to pass about the same age - I think it was about 6-12 weeks old and it was bucklings and doelings.

    The other thing is, is that she has treated for worms (not with the dewormer I suggested). I just really have a gut feeling that it is cocci. Also, I had a lady that wants to purchase a goat from me this year, and she said that she had a little one that she got last year that had cocci bad, didn't really pay much attention to it, till I learned where she had received the kid from - you guessed it. Thank goodness this owner is vigilant about the Vet!
     
  15. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I for one, would feel asolutely terrible knowing that I sold a "sick" kid....even if I didn't know what was wrong with it, I would certainly wonder why and the one time I did have an issue with cocci...I was a wreck and got that doeling to the vet ....even if the problem is not having the money for a vet...I certainly would be rethinking the number of mouths I feed so that I could afford a vet when needed.

    Allison, I truly hope this breeder opens her eyes, and will hopefully have a conscience and heart enough to know that the way she is letting them die is just not right.I just don't understand how people can let disease run rampant in any animal and not want to know the hows and whys.. you certainly wouldn't let a child be sick without seeing a doctor, why let an animal suffer?
     
  16. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Completely agree, Liz that was stated very well.
     
  17. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    TY..Kylee
     
  18. HollowbeadRanch

    HollowbeadRanch New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    NW Alabama
    I second Kylee :thumbup: VERY well put Liz! I couldn't have said it better myself :hi5:
     
  19. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Yah, I agree Liz. I know that sometimes we can be tight here when things unexpectedly happen - but we have pretty much given away animals when we could forsee what was going on for the well being of all.

    Like my DH says, if it comes down to it - we either give them away or eat them. I am glad that it has never gotten that close - but now I make sure that I have a vet fund set up with some money in it for emergencies.

    I called, but I haven't heard from her today - so we will see if she calls tomorrow
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

    461
    Dec 20, 2008
    Vernonia, Oregon
    I too have an aquantience like yours. Sadly I didn't know what kind of a person she was until after I sold a couple of goats to her. (they have both dies in her care) in my case, I just told her I had the same situation as she did, tried to sound as empathetic as I could, and told her what helped. Granted, she did listen for about five minutes, but after that she was back to being a person that just plain didn't get it, no matter what I do..Mind you she would give you the shirt off her back, but I will never give her another goat as long as I live, and I am shocked any of her goats are still alive today.
    So the only advise, having been in your shoes, try to sound empathetic, like you have been there before, maybe then she can open up to hear you. I would buy all of the goats from my 'friend' if I could. Actually I almost fell over when she asked for help to worm and vaccinate her goats this fall!!
    Good luck, and aren't we GLAD there are just a few like this??!!