Farm Security!

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by dragonfly farms, May 23, 2010.

  1. dragonfly farms

    dragonfly farms New Member

    Oct 4, 2008
    Pfafftown, NC
    I am sad to report that I had a goat go missing a few weeks ago. Things here have been pretty normal except I am having cars full of people show up unannounced looking for animals. I am not selling anything right now so I have no ads out and when I do my address is never listed. You cannot see my home or animals from the road unless you are looking for it. I am beginning to think that my young doeling was taken from us.

    Yesterday a truck load of non-english speaking people drove up and hubby was not right at the house but could see them. He said that before he could make it over to them they were already beginning to walk around the property. That does not sit well with me.

    When talking with the people my husband said he had asked them in spanish multiple time what friend had sent them here and they would not answer the questions. He said at that point they got very uncomfortable and kept saying uh, i forgot, dont remember! I REALLY DONT like the sound of that.

    When they would not leave he let the dogs out (they are not mean) they are just big and when something big runs at you, you run away. One man tried to throw rocks at the one dog and then my big guy came out and they made it back into their car and left.

    We are very concerned about our animals safety since we both work during the day. It is also a big concerned for us that you cannot see the house from the street, people can come up here and do whatever they want and our neighbors wouldnt even know! I did call my neighbor to tell him what was going on and he said that he has seen a bunch of cars coming and going lately. I said oh really, he thought they were our friends, but when I told him we dont really have any friends that come up this way, he said oh really? So he will keep an eye out and let me know what he sees. We are working on posting no trespassing and beware of dogs signs but I dont think that means too much!

    We have an easement so im not sure a gate will work. We have also thought of installing some still cameras to capture the parking area. I would have never thought of this as being an issue, but now my feelings of being unsafe are driving me insane!

    Any ideas?
  2. FunnyRiverFarm

    FunnyRiverFarm New Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    Hudson, MI
    Definitely get one or more of those digital "hunting" cameras--they are motion activated so you wouldn't waste tons of film/tape and time looking through footage of nothing. They are also easy to mount and camoflauge. We have one that we put out when we go on vacation just incase anything comes up missing.

  3. Galavanting Goat

    Galavanting Goat New Member

    Apr 27, 2010
    Oh how frustrating for you, that would make my blood boil!. I agree with FRF, and I would also sugest putting up a sign stating that your property is under 24 hour camera surveilance, put one at the entrance of your property and another anywhere else these people may gain access along with some "mock cameras" visible to the intruders eyes. Anyone that comes looking should also be informed that under NO circumstances are they to enter onto the property uninvited or you will contact the necessary autorities, and take down their number plate registration in front of them so they know you mean business, keep the plate registration on hand so you can monitor THEIR comings and goings from your property.
  4. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    I agree with both posters -- I hope that this deters them.

    I saw your status on FB and I had hoped she would be found but wow that would have been a terrible thing to happen if someone just stole her and did the unthinkable :(
  5. dragonfly farms

    dragonfly farms New Member

    Oct 4, 2008
    Pfafftown, NC
    I picked up more signage today while I was out. We are planning a trip to the sporting store to get the camera up. can i just say that this is CRAZY! and it is very frustrating!

    I still need to call my other neighbor to let him know whats going on and that the signs are not being posted about him or his hunters (we have an easement with him) And also to keep him informed so he can keep and eye out.

    I am also planning on talking to other farms in the area and see what they have to say. If they have noticed anything etc and to keep them informed of what is going on at our place. I was really hoping that Annabelle just got spooked and wandered off, but after yesterday I really dont think that is the case! Im feeling a bunch of mixed emotions, anger, frustration and very vulnerable to name some. We chose this property since it was so far off the road and was hidden, and now that seems to big a problem for security!

    I know we will get thru this, I just really hope that no other animals become missing in the meantime.

    Good thing hubby has a close friend in the sheriffs office :)

    Thank you for the ideas and support, it means a lot while I am feeling very lost!
  6. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Oh that is terrible. I'm glad you picked up some signs though that should help deter people. You may also want to get a sign next to the no trespassing signs that says "Camera's Activated" or "Camera Secured Property" or something like that, maybe even beware of dogs. I don't know if you guys have a gun, but that might be something to consider just for your own protection. We always have a gun or two sitting by the door or somewhere in the house in case one is needed. You just never know these days with all the freaks out there. Especially a woman by herself if hubby is away. That is scary to have a big group like that come onto your property and start snooping.

    Anywho, so very sorry for the loss of the doe. That's terrible of someone to take her. :(
  7. FunnyRiverFarm

    FunnyRiverFarm New Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    Hudson, MI
    Personally, I would not even bother with the signs...I would just let the people get caught. In my experience signs are not very effective in these situations. Like you, our home and barn are not visible from the road and we have had a couple of incidences of people coming up our drive that had no business with us...they were just trolling...looking to see if anyone was home and/or what we had. You had a good idea about telling others in the area with livestock what's going on...these folks were obviously not for the right thing...
  8. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    A had a car full of men come up to our place once.... they were looking at my goats like they just found dinner!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH of course my LGD's are NOT people friendly for this reason...... they took care of business and that car has never been back. We've been wanting to get a couple game cams though..... that would be neat. :) I'm sorry for the loss of your doe.... that is AWFUL!!!!
  9. ZipperDoo

    ZipperDoo Member

    Apr 18, 2010
    That's really scary! I'd get a gun if I were you, even if it's nonfunctional. Just keep it in a clip on your belt within sight as you're on your property. People are rarely interested in messing with someone who has a visible gun on them.

    I agree as well on the camera ideas! Absolutely get their plate numbers. Get a picture of their plates as they're driving up/leaving as well, and report their unannounced, uninvited TRESPASS to your friend at the sheriff's office as well. Just so if they show up a second time you have physical evidence.

    For the time being, I'd highly recommend teaching your dogs to bay on command. My mom had a golden retriever who she taught to speak, using the command "protect" and a hand signal.

    My mom could flash the hand signal and her dog would go NUTS barking, baying, hopping on his front feet, excited to get to bark like a nutcase. And despite his wagging tail and happy dog smile, it frightened people a LOT.

    If your bark is big enough (cameras, blatantly snapping pics of vehicles, signs, loud BIG dogs, etc) people are gonna learn to leave you alone right quick.
  10. lissablack

    lissablack New Member

    Nov 30, 2009
    I wonder if it would be worth it to talk to a security alarm place, like the people who used to be Brinks or one of those kinds of places. And what about having a loud alarm that went off when someone drove onto your property? That tends to scare people away, but might be a problem for mail or UPS or the meter reader.

  11. dragonfly farms

    dragonfly farms New Member

    Oct 4, 2008
    Pfafftown, NC
    We had thought about looking into LGD that was not visitor friendly, but was not sure how that worked! Luckily our one dog has a terrible case of the smiles, and when he smiles he has TEETH! that is what got the men to run to their car!

    This is the 3rd time a car full of men has come to our house, once in april and twice now in may. I would say that they are not coincidences.

    I am sure the signage will not be 100% effective, but getting the camera will help us identify cars if there is a problem. We do have a rifle by the door. Like the fake handgun idea! that would be fun!

    What a mess!
  12. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    My reply must not have posted this morning, but I also like the idea of the game camera! Also I'd definitely recommend a good watch dog!
    Years ago when I was a teen I bought a German Shepherd pup, and she was a Godsend! Totally amazing dog! She was very friendly towards our animals - slept with my rabbits! She was around chickens, turkeys, I had 16 rabbits at the time!, and cows, horses, etc. and she never once bothered any of them. Now... if a stray dog came on the property she was ALL business.

    If a stranger came on the'd think she was not the same dog, hair raised, teeth showing, and literately SCARY!!!!! She scared several people back into their cars and off the property! She'd back off immediately if you called on her. She was just so wonderful, and gentle.

    And....the only training she ever had was just the basics, walking on a leash, sit, down, stay..and of course play dead...LOL everything else came to her instinctly. Dogs are soooo amazing, and I am very very partial to German Shepherds. I know the GPD is ideal for herds though.
  13. DebMc

    DebMc Member

    Dec 10, 2009
    So sorry about the loss of your doe. It's sad that you're having to deal with this situation.

    We had a similiar problem 5 or 6 years ago. After consulting w/the sheriff's dept, 2 cops, a detective and a lawyer, we posted our fenced property with NO TRESPASSING SIGNS in English and Spanish spelling out state statues and and that violators would be prosecuted - available at most sign shops. We were advised not to post "BEWARE OF DOG" signs, or signs saying anything along those lines, as the way current law reads one can be sued and held liable for dog bites even if the person bitten was trespassing and had ripped off your home *if* the owner of the posted property knows his dog is aggressive as such signage would indicate that to be the case. Likewise, you can be sued and criminally prosecuted for assaulting or shooting an intruder INSIDE your home even if it's in self defense.

    IME, the only thing more effective than an aggressive dog in protecting private property and deterring would-be intruders is an obedient aggressive dog. Seriously! Been there, done it and it works like a charm.

    Deb Mc
  14. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    I agree with the others and think a sign stating "this property is under video surveillance" would work nicely. There is a picture included in case they cannot read English, but in my line of work some cannot speak English only when it is convenient for them. Also, radio shack sales those "dummy" video cameras that flash a red light and look like the real thing. They are pretty cheap to get if you can't afford the real thing right now. I had wondered about security issues when my hubby and I discussed selling meat goats later to the ethnic population later on, and how many unwanted visitors we may get. I'm thinking of putting my Old English Mastiff in with the goats. That mammoth would scare anything away.
  15. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    I just hate it when people think it is OK to just walk on to someones property! Sorry about your missing doeling.

    We will be moving on to 40 acres soon and we just put up an arch across our driveway..a very looong drive way. Hubby is planning on putting up a camera there. We also have a back way in and a gate will go there also. We have two dogs and plan on getting another pup when they are ready. We also have a few guns.

    Another suggestion that has worked for me in the past...when you see someone drive up to your property, walk out with a pen and paper and make a big deal of taking down thier car license plate number. Look at them and walk away. They will get the point! I did this once to a guy who would cruse by my house alot and the guy asked me what I was doing. I said I was taking down his info so that if I saw his car anywhere near my property again, I would call the cops. Never saw him again!
  16. 7acreranch

    7acreranch New Member

    Mar 8, 2010
    Eastern OK
    An LGD would help but they are not instant protection. I would gate the easement give you neighbor a key or a combo lock will work if you have utilities that use the easement. Let me enforce point NO FAKE GUNS, get a real one and every time you go out to a strange wear it proudly( of course you must know how to use it and keep in condition ZERO when going out like this. Signs will deter some but it may also protect you legally. Each state is different with laws regarding livestock here in OK it is a major offense although difficult to enforce. If you tattoo your animals and find one missing alert the local auctions and butchers to keep their eye out.
    The census lady came down my drive the other (we leave the gate open when I am home and wife is at work. If we are all home it is shut) I saw her coming in a ratty p/u and met her halfway in the driveway her first question was is that "gun" real.
    Since you already have a rifle I would suggest one goes out and the other on cover with the rifle from the house worse comes to worse you can always have an accidental discharge in a safe direction.

    Also keep in mind that you luckily live in a state that is considered a "NO RETREAT STATE" which means that you can legally defend yourself if you fell danger to you or your family with no need to run away"
    Simple rule with this doctrine is to have only your statement to give to the officer.
    In this economy we will see more of this on soem of the boards I frequent this comes up often One guy last a herd of cattle they loaded a trailer in his field. Worst part was there were witness's but just thought he sold them since they knew he was thinking about selling them.
  17. dragonfly farms

    dragonfly farms New Member

    Oct 4, 2008
    Pfafftown, NC
    This whole situation has definitely left us with an odd feeling. The camera will be here tomorrow.

    I know that the people all coming and the goat may not be related, but I would much rather assume the worst and plan to avoid it in the future. We have learned that we are vulnerable up here and do not like the feeling!

    Hubby works down the street and came home today at all breaks and at lunch. He made sure to do a full head count and quick check for disturbances. I did not feel comfortable at work, I was so worried that something was going happen! Ugh I cannot wait for the initial feeling to wear off!

    I did speak with some farmers in the area and one gentleman had to escort someone off his property at gun point. Not a good sign. This economy will sure make people go crazy!

    Thank you all again for your advice and support!
  18. mrs. lam

    mrs. lam New Member

    Apr 20, 2010

    Did the lawyer say anything about having a LIVESTOCK GUARDIAN ON DUTY sign posted? We are moving to 9 acres soon and are planning to keep the animals behind the house so they can't be seen from the road, but that doesn't always keep people away. :sigh: We are planning on a gate at the driveway with NO TRESPASSING sign posted. Had planned on posting dog warning sign too, now may just reword it to get past legal. :p Kinda' like how they reword their stuff. (turn about is fair play)

    I agree with a real gun instead of a fake one. I carry a 357 at the jewelry store. You should see some of the looks! :shocked: "You afraid of getting robbed?" Me: "Not really. I deal with my husband's ex-wife on a weekly bases. I'm no longer afraid of anything." He shut up, got his watch battery and hit the door. :shades:

    God, I love my job!

  19. DebMc

    DebMc Member

    Dec 10, 2009
    Any verbage suggestive of "dangerous dog" is what he advised against.

    We were advised to post NO TRESPASSING signs in both English and Spanish - not as a courtesy but as a legality - that cite the applicable statute *and* warn violators will be prosecuted. I think this requirement may vary from state to state so you might want to check your state laws for specifics. I'm in AZ and we have share a border w/Mexico.

    One of the cops told me that if private property is fenced and properly posted, NO TRESPASSING signs would cover the owner in the event their dog would bite or attack a trespasser within the posted fenced area. Law enforcement is not supposed to be giving legal advice so who knows if that's true.

    Deb Mc
  20. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    I've seen signs of all kinds. Where we're moving to in MT, there are people with signs that say "If you weren't invited, turn around now." or "No Trespassing. Violators will be shot" and the like. Man, I love it up there :)

    We're going to have 10 foot fences with barbed wire lines on the top, and we might make it live if we feel like it. Tim thinks that he should just stay home during the day and guard the goats, and I can go work in town. Hahaha funny man.