The Goat Spot Forum banner
1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,384 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Kimi is a 27 month old FF Nubian. She freshened 8 days ago with twin bucklings. Easy birth, passed afterbirth, in good flesh (not fat and not thin), kids pulled to be raised pasteurized. Was acting totally normal until 3 days ago. At night milking she was fine. Ate her grain, milked about 1/3 of a gallon after running into the barn and jumping on the milk stand. After milking, I put her and her FF buddy back out in their pen, where they were eating their hay when I went in for the night.

The next morning, she was reluctant to get up and had way less milk. She picked at her grain but ate her hay and the fresh grass and burdock leaves I gave her and her buddy, as I do every day since it started growing. By evening milking, she was lethargic and refused to eat any of her grain. Very little milk in her udder. Starting to lose weight from not eating her grain and now just picking at her hay. FAMACHA score perfect, nice dark pink eye membranes. She felt warm, but had been laying in the sun. Just in case, I gave her antibiotics (tetracycline), vitamin B complex and Banamine. (in case it was laminitis, as she had it in the past, even though her hoofs were not feverish). Her post kidding discharge looks normal with no off smell. No breathing problems, runny nose/eyes nothing to point at

NO VET- mine retired and I am on a waiting list with the other area vets, who are not taking any new clients right now. I am on my own.

Saturday night she had no milk and did not want to get up. My son and daughter in law got her up and into the barn to feed her, but she would not eat her grain. She and her buddy went back outside with their hay, where she ate a little bit.

Sunday morning I got her up and brought her in to eat. Refused again. Since her ears and mouth felt cold, I treated her for milk fever, just in case, because she had not been great about eating her alfalfa pellets, though she would eat soaked beet pulp mixed with her grain up to the point where she kidded, and was eating at her loose minerals. I gave her the CMPK orally, since I didn't have the injectable form. Again with the antibiotic and Vit B complex. Again, in case it was founder, I gave her another dose of Banamine. She fought hard against the oral CMPK, moved away from the injections and walked back to her pen. She ate a small amount of hay then laid down and would not get back up for the fresh grass.

When I did before work chores at 1700, she was laying down and would not get up to eat her hay. I brought some over to her in case she changed her mind.

My son called me here at work (I work Fri-Sunday 1900-0700) a little while ago during night chores to say she did not eat her grain and seemed weak. I advised him to give her a dose of molasses and oil, which he is doing now.

As I mentioned, I am without a vet and have limited meds for her, just the tetracycline, Banamine, and penicillin. I used the last of the B complex and CMPK on her yesterday morning. Gotta get more today.

What am I missing?
 

·
Premium Member
Raising Quality Show & Commercial Goats
Joined
·
6,224 Posts
I agree with Kay. Give her warm temp flat dark beer drench. The next day give her probios / plain yogurt. Put her on electrolytes/ pedialite..for 1 full day. Then start her on hay slowly giving her small amounts of grain. I would be watching her temp very closely and listening to her [email protected] Tanya is correct too...that will help her milk production. And help clear up any udder problems.
 

·
Registered
Goat Mentor
Joined
·
7,514 Posts
I would get a rectal temp.

Continue with CMPK orally daily, sounds like calcium could be an issue.

Testing ketones is also a good idea.

Fecal test for parasites would be ideal.

Start on garlic, 3 raw cloves.

Cayenne pepper and honey rubbed on the gums.

I would soak dark beer with alfalfa pellets to make a slurry.

More vitamin B complex.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,384 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So, I found out what her problem was. Black bag (I know it's actually called blue bag, but hers is black). My son and daughter in law do the night milkings when I work, so they didn't catch it, and she had normal milk that morning so there were no real "red flags". I went to milk her in the next morning and knew as soon as I felt the teat. Closer look, revealed the truth. Teat dead and cold, bottom 1/3 of udder black, hard and cold. A few clots but mostly nasty blackish red blood. I got both sides emptied as best I could and gave her mastitis treatment. At this point the right side was still warm and producing milk. Fortunately I was now on days off so I could really work on her. I started heavy penicillin injections on top of the direct into the teat penicillin infusions. peppermint massages to help keep the circulation going on the good side as well as trying to save the top 2/3 of the infected side. Banamine for pain.

She did freshen with a leaky teat (the left side...the one now infected) so I had been heavily dipping her after milking with cold dip to help close the orifice and keeping her on the milk stand to give it time to close, and then dipping her again. I use Chlorhexidine and alternate with Betadine.

By night milking the right side was starting to become infected. I infused that side after milking when I infused the left side. Because the medication would run right out, I held it shut and then taped each teat. That seemed to help keep the medication where it belonged.

I started her on huge doses of oregano and sage to fight the ecoli and help dry her up. She was not impressed. By morning the right side was clear. Did another infusion after milking her out just to be sure. The left side remained live on the top 2/3's so at least it didn't seem to be spreading. More of the peppermint massage, oxytocin to make sure I got all the milk, even though there was no milk in the left side, only dark red and black blood.

That night the teat was pulling away from the udder so I didn't tape it. I upped the penicillin amount and did another infusion. Right side still fine, normal milk and body temp udder half. Taped it to protect from the dripping from the other side.

So, for now she is holding her own. She is picking at the hay but really goes for fresh grass and burdock leaves. She gets the oregano and sage 3 times a day (she HATES it). The blood in the left side has been replaced by a little bit of milk, so I guess that's a step in the right direction. The teat is still partially attached but most likely will fall off soon. The upper 2/3s is still healthy, so no progression of the gangrenous tissue. She did run to the milking area last night and this morning and is acting alert and more herself. I plan on keeping the antibiotic going for a while longer, with the oregano drenches for even longer. The sage does not seem to be drying her up. Maybe because she is 2 weeks fresh. I add probiotics to the oregano mix.

I know this is going to be a long process, but we are taking it one day at a time. I am going to order her a "bra" so I can keep the udder covered as the dead udder starts to slough off. I think if I line the bra with diapers, it will help absorb any discharge and help with fly control. I am thinking she will need the bra until that totally heals.

I have not had a vet out, as I do not have one. My long time vet retired and there is a waiting list for the few goat vets in the area. When I called to see if they could at least see her, they all simply said to cull her. Not an option at this time. She seems to be getting better, so as long as she is progressing, I will not euthanize her. She doesn't seem to be in any pain now, except at milking time when the right side is full. She had the potential of being a heavy milker, so that side is really full. Before this set in (and totally overnight), she was pounding out over a gallon at 2 weeks fresh.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,290 Posts
Ugh..poor Mama. Some use neosporin to keep the udder from being dry and cracking while it sloughs off, which fine If it's covered preventing dirt from sticking. Keep in mind that Penicillin interferes with LA 200 when injected. So stick with one or the other. It's ok to use pen infused and inject la 200..but Penicillin wpukd be fine for this injected as well. So glad you got it figured out and her on the mend. She will loose the one side but can still feed off the other next season. Also you can use Elmer's glue to close off teat. It washes off easy and won't tear at the rotting teat like tape. Also I would keep her away from the herd as the bacteria being released could spread to the others. Keep her bedding deep and clean. You're doing great!! She and yoy will get through this

Best wishes
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,384 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
The LA 200 had worn off by the time I injected the penicillin, I know they cancel each other out. I'm not worried about her raising kids, as I pull and bottle anyway. She's just really special.

I ordered the udder support and will keep it on her until this thing heals. An adult diaper should help absorb the fluid that is now draining from the dead area, plus form fit to keep insects away. I keep the entire area, teats and udder and surrounding area sprayed with chlorhexidine to help control any more bacteria. The live teat has a large scabbed over area that I keep covered with Udder balm under the teat spray. The live part of the infected udder is remaining at 2/3, the infection has not spread. Actually, even the dead, black part of the udder has a bit or warmth to it now, though the teat is deathly cold. I am keeping up the peppermint massage of the entire udder to stimulate circulation, and maybe speed up the sloughing off of the dead section.

Everything is sprayed with alcohol after I have her in the barn and on the milk stand and I wear gloves when milking or generally working with her.

Her appetite has increased. She picks at the minimal grain I feed her but is now eating her hay instead of picking at it and gobbles the fresh greens I pick and carry to her feeder. She is still getting the oregano drench with added probiotics, and as I mentioned, the penicillin will be going for a while.

The doe is in a run in pen in an area that has not had goats in it. She spends a lot of time sleeping in the sun, which is good for her. I make her move around by putting her hay feeder and water bucket on opposite sides of the pen, plus she walks to and from the barn twice a day for milking. She is trotting or awkwardly running to the barn now. Good sign.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,290 Posts
I agree..you're doing great. Glad she is showing signs of feeling better.

Best wishes
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,384 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Moers- gangrene mastitis is caused by ecoli, so is in the environment but mastitis can be spread between does if the milk or infection is on the ground where another doe lays down. This doe has her long time pen buddy with her. We tried to separate, but both became frantic. The diaper should keep any discharge from contaminating the ground/floor, plus the bright sun will kill a lot of the bacteria.

She is doing great now. I gave her a medication vacation, taking her off the penicillin for 3 days to allow the good bacteria to re-populate and do it's thing before starting up again yesterday. She remains on her oregano and probiotic drench, which she absolutely HATES! It's funny, most of my other does LOVE oregano, I can put the dried herb in their feed and they devour it. Not Kimi!

I have gotten the good side to almost completely dry up, which is in her best interest at this point. .

She has gotten her appetite totally back! She eats her low protein grain with gusto now! I still bring her greens every day. She had lost a lot of weight, but is now putting that back on. She loves to lay out in the sun. I take that as a plus. So does the fact that she yells at me at feeding time! Music to my ears. She is much more alert and active, and is showing a lot of interest in her surroundings once again.

The teat is hanging on, and the worst of the drainage has slowed down, but the lower dead part of the udder is starting to decay. I know that has to happen in order for the udder to heal, but I am not looking forward to that part of the process. There was no smell prior to yesterday, but now there is an odor to the area and the little bit of discharge. The upper 2/3 of the udder remain warm and seemingly healthy. I am thinking of adding a few drops of oregano EO to the massage and put that directly on the top part of the udder to target the area and keep it healthy. She doesn't flinch when I clean and massage the bad side of her udder, nor does she turn and bite my neck or pull my hair when I am working on her udder. I've managed to keep the flies away from her so far, the udder support (I spray with water based fly spray) and diaper are helping that.

So, she is holding her own and may even be gaining!
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top