Figuring on Herd Size, Opinions please...

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by Sweet Gum Minis, Mar 7, 2008.

  1. Sweet Gum Minis

    Sweet Gum Minis New Member

    Oct 6, 2007
    Easley, SC
    Ok, I'm stuck in a position and having a hard time deciding what to do. So I'd like your opinions.

    I have 6 bucks right now. Well 5 but a 6th joining me soon.

    Cornerstone Farms Calah (coming soon)
    Little Tot's Estate Meadow-Rue
    Better Blues HR Anna's Zeus
    Gypsy Moon HW Larkspur
    Kids Corral PT Cruiser
    Meadow Blue Farm Ace

    I had wanted to retain Potsie's buckling Harry Potter to use on Anna and Contredanse and any doe kids I retain from them. Her udder is HUGE, gorgeous shape, soft texture, excellent rear attachments. I have his sire Rue and I also am getting the sire to Ace (Calah). My problem with that is that Ace's dam is Caesar's Villa GS Zillionaire, a gorgeous doe who has a super udder and has won enough grands to be finished but for some reason isn't. Anyway, I really want to use him on my CV does for 2009 so I don't want to sell him. So I'm torn. When I sit and figure up my plans for 2009 I don't see me using Zeus at all. I can't think of any does I plan to use him on. His dam Camanna WR Oceana just finished her championship in the ADGA so I don't want to kick myself for selling him either. Haha What would you do?

    Rue has tons of potential in the show ring, he's giving me tons of nice kids and mostly doelings so I don't have any intention to sell him this year. I'd love to see him in the ring as it is anyway.

    Lark's dam has a gorgeous udder though the pictures I have are just not at all doing her justice. I saw her freshen at a show last year and she was stunning. He is SUPER long, gorgeous escutcheon and width. His first kids aren't here yet so he's not one I'll sell.

    Cruiser, should he live through his stone problem, is super wide, extremely uphill and another one I really want to show. He doesn't have any kids on the ground yet either. So I don't plan to sell him.

    Calah's not even here yet. I was planning to use him on several of my does this coming year.

    So that leaves Ace and Zeus. Zeus has given me some very nice kids though only bred to 3 does. All 3 are very nice in confirmation. Ace hasn't been bred to any of my does yet.

    Would it be best to keep them all breed some this fall and part with just a couple then? I'm so torn. I guess I really fear selling a buck and then later freshening some of his daughters and think WHY DID I SELL HIM??????? lol
     
  2. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    Hmm...... That is a hard one. I would definatly keep Rue and Cruiser for sure. And Calah, and probably Zeus I would personally sell Lark or Ace (Tough on for sure, you will probably want to see their kids first) Hope that helps...
     

  3. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    how many does do you intend to have at breeding time next fall?
    beth
     
  4. Sweet Gum Minis

    Sweet Gum Minis New Member

    Oct 6, 2007
    Easley, SC
    You know I'm not positive how many I aim to have. I really haven't gotten got a clue. Guess it'll be whatever we can most easily manage and not feel overwhelmed with.

    I don't plan to sell any bucks till I have a chance to clip them and set them up too. But at the rate I'm going I doubt any will leave till the fall anyway, that is if any do. :p
     
  5. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    i completly understand. If you think there is a buck you may want to use not this next breeding season but next keep him. Maybe breed him to one doe so he feels good about himself and then save him. Breed heavily to a buck you think you want to sell. and then use the next buck in line.
    beth
     
  6. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    I feel so relieved to have traded Copper even though it was a tough thing to do. 5 bucks is enough for me!
     
  7. Laurel_Haven

    Laurel_Haven New Member

    768
    Oct 19, 2007
    South Carolina
    I was up checking on Shamrock (Due Day 150 today) and couldn't get back to sleep so thought I would browse the Spot. I came across your post and I am going through the same thing debating on keeping Pisces or his half brother Zeppelin. Doesn't make much sense to keep them both. Who to keep or not :? so I know exactly what you are going through. :hair:

    I don't know if this will help or not but I think you would be crazy to get rid of Larkspur as I have his dam and she just freshened with the most fantastic udder, and she only had a single doe. But it is very capacious for a single, it's high and wide in the rear, long lateral attachments, near perfect medial suspensory ligament and a fore udder that is smoothly blended into her belly. So well attached both front and rear, and her teats are super large. Her doeling can barely fit them in her mouth they are that big. I will be retaining Morning Glory's doeling proudly into my herd hoping she takes after momma with the same or even better mammary system.

    If your Lark passes on these mammary genetics to his offspring I do think you will be very pleased. :wink:

    Anyway I know how tough these decisions can be... I hope I could be of some help passing on this information!
    Solution: Just keep them all! LOL :leap:
     
  8. hornless

    hornless New Member

    326
    Oct 5, 2007
    I would sell Larkspur as well, if you think you can part with him. Your other bucks, IMO, are nicer (I really like Zeus and Rue). Moring Glory's teat placement/attachments are not as good as the other bucks' dams, IMO. So he is the one I would sell. Of the bucklings you have, I like Foxglove? the best. Minuets' udder is so nice too! If he has not sold, that is.

    If you are choosing between Ace and Zeus...I would sell Zeus. Only because you have his sister as well.

    Oh, and congrats on Calah. He sure is an awesome buck!
     
  9. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    I guess it is the photos of Morning Glory's udder. I would be curious to see the photos you get of her. It is a really hard thing to decide! I wish you luck!
     
  10. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    I was looking through your bucks and personally, my favorite bucks of yours are Ace, Zeus and Cruiser.

    Ace's dam looks just AWSOME, everything about her just seems graceful with that look at me attitude.

    Zeus's dam, besides being a CH, she is just very dairy, long, very angular, and she has a really nice udder.

    Cruiser's dam, she is just so beautiful with a skateboard topline and a very nice round udder with good teat placement.

    I like Rue too, he is a handsome guy, I like his dam too.

    Personally, I looked at Lark's dam, her udder is nice(and so is she) but that teat placement unless its just the picture, is way too off for my liking.

    With Calah, I found a pic of Phebe, not in milk though. Personally, I'd say don't buy him. His mom doesn't really have the dairy character or general appearance that the dams of your current bucks do, and she has a steep rump.

    That's just my two cents :)
     
  11. Sweet Gum Minis

    Sweet Gum Minis New Member

    Oct 6, 2007
    Easley, SC
    I think I'm going to just delete Glory's udder photo. You guys, I saw her freshen at the Carrollton, GA goat show last spring and I must say that this photo is a complete waste of time. I don't like that people judge her by that photo when it does her no justice.

    That photo was taken a week I believe after both her kids had been sold and she was drying so it does not give a true view of her udder. I really wish I'd taken one at the show but back then I didn't know I was getting Larkspur.

    To be honest, Rue's dam's udder is not as strong as I'd want it to be for my bucks. But that was a ff and I haven't been lucky enough yet to get newer udder photos of her since she was sold. So I've toyed with selling Rue due to that. He does however, have extremely strong udder genetics on is sire's side. If you look up Thalictrum's daughter's you'll see what I mean. Rue's sire is producing stunning daughters all around so I can only hope Rue got that strong genetic aspect as well.

    I'm just torn, one minute I think its not fesible to go into the next season with so many bucks but on the other hand I also can't seem to let them go either. So.... who knows.
     
  12. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    Well I am not sure how strongly the sire of a buck will affect a bucks daughters, its usually father gives to his daughter and mother gives to her son. Have you seen many of Rue's dams half sisters? Are they nice and consistent?
     
  13. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    That would explain it. From the way both of you explain her udder it sounds wonderful, I would like to see her udder photos this freshening. Hollywood's dam's udder photos where taken after her bucks were taken off and she had started drying up. I really wish I could have seen her udder in "full bloom"! I still feel like 5 bucks for me is too much, but I just CANNOT let any o them go until I see some daughters. I really see your dilemma. Teat placement definatly improves when they are in full milk (not drying off) I have observed that in a few of my does.