Frustrated over lame doe

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Darby77, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. Darby77

    Darby77 Active Member

    339
    Apr 23, 2016
    My boer doe has been lame for 2wks now. I believe she had/has hoof rot bc the inside wall of her toe was black and cracked. I trimmed what I could (I have no help holding her) and was treating with Dr. Naylors hoof and heal but no improvement. I switched to koppertox and trimmed a little more today. There wasn't heat last week but now there is heat in the foot. I can't get anyone out to trim my herd until next week and am on my own. I really need some advice. I feel awful. She limps and holds it up when she stands still. The paddock is frozen, no mud and I clean my stalls daily so very clean. I tried to get pics the other night. Please help. 20181218_170317.jpeg 20181218_170313.jpeg 20181218_170049.jpeg 20181218_170242.jpeg 20181218_165924.jpeg
     
  2. Dwarf Dad

    Dwarf Dad Well-Known Member

    If you have her in/on stanchion or halter tied to something, sit behind her and rest bottom part of leg on your. Hold on tight! I haven't figured out a better way yet.
    If you have her contained well enough, you should be able to trim a little more. A side view picture of her foot would allow people to suggest how far to trim. Then what I understand about the hoof rot is to trim it all out and to coat with Koppertox.
    Soaking for a little bit in copper sulphate will help, too.
    @ksalvagno , @singinggoatgirl , @Tenacross , @mariarose , @HoosierShadow , all are good for hoof info.
     

  3. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Oh, poor baby. This is what I'd do to start. Wash that hoof with warm soapy water, alternately soaking for several seconds and then scrubbing with a tooth brush and then soaking again, and then scrubbing... All the nooks and crannies.. Then you should be able to inspect everything much better.

    Then I'd start snipping. If a bit of hoof wall has folded over, snip that away. If hoof wall has separated away, snip it off. If you see or feel a hole developing anywhere (check the hoof walls between the digits, I often get a hole in there and it is hard to see, but you should be able to feel one) Snip around it until it is level with the rest of the foot. If you feel a hole between the digits, then also snip the same place on the opposite digit to prevent pressure and rubbing.

    Make the bottoms of the hoof as smooth and flat as possible to prevent rough areas picking up and holding mud. While the hoof is still clean, I'd scrub it again with a copper sulphate solution, or a zinc sulfate solution, and I'd let it dry before allowing her back onto dirt.

    The next day, If you did not trim everything (hey, we can only do what we can do and sometimes that isn't everything that we must do, right?) I'd do it again. Keep cleaning, snipping , smoothing, and coating.

    And I'd find a way to up her copper and zinc if I could. Keep her out of the mud if possible, but the scrubbing on of the copper or zinc and allowing it to dry clean, will help counteract the mud/muck she gets into.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  4. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Her foot needs to be soaked. Unfortunately you might have to get creative on how to contain her.
     
  5. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Soaked in what? Copper, Epsom Salts, Salt Water, Diluted Disinfectant? Is there an antibiotic injection that could help her?
     
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  6. anawhitfield

    anawhitfield Active Member

    591
    Jun 8, 2013
    Buford, Georgia
    I have a +200 lbs billy with really bad hooves. One of his walls is separated so bad that I can actually stick my pinkie finger in there half-way up to the band.
    During the day I let him out in the pasture but every evening I lure him into in a stall with lots of CLEAN and DRY hay underfoot.

    He doesn't like to be handled nor sit still (and he is VERY strong and I'm 50+ years old) so a few weeks ago I put a dog collar around the base of his horns (not too tight, not too loose) that way I can easily grab him and clip a rope on it and then pull his forehead up against a barn post. Once he is tied up I spend a few minutes brushing and scratching him to help him relax, maybe give him a small treat so he knows I'm his friend.

    About the hooves:
    1) I clean off dirt and manure and I rinse the hoof with a squirt water bottle (a regular water bottle with holes in the cap) - I could use a garden hose but that would produce too much water in his stall and the idea is to keep the floor clean and dry.
    2) Once the hooves are clean, I cut off anything that could snag, catch rip, tear, hold dirt, is over grown and I dig out any dirt or manure. Rinse again.
    3) I pour the clorox/iodine/water solution (see photo) in an empty coffee can and I soak each foot for a minute or so. (I use this solution to squirt on my other goats' hooves every time they get a pedicure. This very solution is what got rid of a 1.5" tumor in between one of my does' toes. So it works really well!)
    4) I pat the hoof dry and apply coppertox but only every 3-4 days. This whole thing takes me about 15 minutes and I'll probably be doing it for quite a few weeks until his hoof grows back. It's a bit of work but my boy is most definitely worth it!
    upload_2018-12-20_11-34-52.png
     
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  7. anawhitfield

    anawhitfield Active Member

    591
    Jun 8, 2013
    Buford, Georgia
    If you are sure she has an infection, you may want to ask your vet for a shot of Resflor Gold.
     
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  8. Darby77

    Darby77 Active Member

    339
    Apr 23, 2016
    Today I out a bucket of alfalfa in front of her and she did ok with standing so I could trim her. She's my chubby girl so hate to feed her extra, but I don't want to stress her either. I might be able do do a very quick soak. So I trim away the wall that's separated? It seemed very dry this morning and i clipped a little away. She has tiny feet for a big girl. Is the heat normal if hoof rot?
     
  9. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Yes! Any infection could produce heat. You could also have more than one thing going on, Hoof rot on the outside, and a pocket of infection inside. I had one with a persistent bad limp and she had heat. I finally cut down to the point I openedd up a hole full of pus and foulness. She got better by the next day after that. I did not know it was there or I would have gone deeper earlier. But I still recommend the snipping away of bad parts and scrubbing. If you want to soak, then I would suggest epsom salts.

    I don't know for certain sure what is wrong with your girl, except yes, she does have hoof rot, I'm just able to tell you what I would do.
     
  10. singinggoatgirl

    singinggoatgirl Well-Known Member

    Apr 13, 2016
    the deep south
    Everyone has covered how to treat her pretty well. Some ideas on how to contain her (I've had a lot of untamed goats that I've had to give trims to...):
    Lure her over with those alfalfa pellets, then find a way to tie her head. You can buy a collar or a halter to put on her, or you can make your own halter out of some thick rope. Thin rope could cut into her skin if she resists. Tie her head to the fence with no slack. This prevents her hurting herself. Push her up against the fence, lift the leg closest to you, and work while leaning into her. Yes, she's strong, but if she can't get any momentum, she's less likely to be able to knock you down. If she can still try to knock you around, tie the back leg closest to the fence snug against the fence so she can't swing her body at you. Do the 2 feet closest to you. Untie that back leg, swing her around 180 degrees so her done side is touching the fence now, hobble again, and do the last 2 feet. If she tries to sit on you, get a wide cloth (I've used sheets and an old baby wrap). Tie one end of the cloth to the fence, pass the other side under her fat belly, then lift that loose end up and tie to the fence. Now she's in a hammock. Treats, treats, treats for GOOD behavior. Calm actions and words. You are not angry when she throws a fit. Just calm, firm, and teaching. Throwing fits means no treats. Holding still, lots of treats and calm cheerful praise.
     
  11. Darby77

    Darby77 Active Member

    339
    Apr 23, 2016
    There was never any odor and it always looked dry. Is it ok to use the koppertox every day? I just use a syringe and shoot a little in between the toes. I'll trim the inside wall away more tonight and scrub it. I know my blacksmith told me you can overdo the koppertox and dry the foot out.
     
  12. anawhitfield

    anawhitfield Active Member

    591
    Jun 8, 2013
    Buford, Georgia
    Yes you can over-do it. Only do it every 3-4 days if there is an infection. Otherwise I would only do it maybe twice/ month as preventive maintenance.
    Did you see my post (above) about the clorox/iodine rinse?
    That kills bacteria, fungus, etc without potentially over-doing it with coppertox.
     
  13. Darby77

    Darby77 Active Member

    339
    Apr 23, 2016
    Even mix of bleach, iodine and water? I know betadine helps the horses with thrush. I'll give it a try. I'll try anything to make my girl feel better. She's very important to me.
     
  14. anawhitfield

    anawhitfield Active Member

    591
    Jun 8, 2013
    Buford, Georgia
    No, it's not an even mix. In a water bottle put 2 fingers of clorox, 1 finger iodine and fill up the rest with water (did you see my picture above?)
    You can pour that into an empty coffee can and soak her foot (after you cleaned the hoof well) OR you can squirt it like you do with coppertox.
     
  15. Darby77

    Darby77 Active Member

    339
    Apr 23, 2016
    Oh, ok, thanks! I totally appreciate everyone's help. It's hard being on my own with them and after 6yrs, I still feel like a total green-horn taking care of them. Horses seem so much easier!
     
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  16. singinggoatgirl

    singinggoatgirl Well-Known Member

    Apr 13, 2016
    the deep south
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    PLEASE DON'T MIX CHEMICALS!!!! You're going to kill yourself or your goat or both!!!! Bleach is SUPER reactive, and it definitely reacts with iodine, which is always in an alcohol carrier liquid. I'm glad you've never had it kill or maim you, @anawhitfield but please don't anymore!!! This is really dangerous chemistry! When you mix iodine (which contains ethanol as a carrier) and bleach you are making chloroform and hydrocloric acid. Both of which are very very dangerous. Your solution is somewhat diluted with water, which is why it hasn't killed you or your goat, but it is doing damage, I assure you! Breathing in Chloroform can knock you out, effects the brain, and small amounts can still damage kidneys and liver. Hydrochloric acid is considered a "strong acid" by chemists (who tend to understate things) and can leave you with chemical burns and nerve damage.

    Use diluted bleach to clean hooves. That's fine. Use iodine to clean hooves. That's fine. DO NOT MIX THEM!!!! If you want to use both, use one, let it sit a few minutes to do it's job, rinse it off thoroughly with clean water, then use the other.

    I cannot emphasize this enough. I almost never use the capslock key on my computer, but I did today. For the love of all you hold dear, trust this science nerd. Don't mix your chemicals. Use them separately. Don't become a Darwin Award by taking yourself out of the gene pool.
     
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  17. singinggoatgirl

    singinggoatgirl Well-Known Member

    Apr 13, 2016
    the deep south
    I forgot to add: once those chemicals start to react, they aren't the same thing anymore, so they won't even do what you wanted them to do. Chloroform is not a disinfectant. I guess you could use hydrochloric acid as a disinfectant, but that's kinda like using a bazooka to kill an fruit fly...
     
  18. Trollmor

    Trollmor Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Goatless in Sweden
    1. Try garlic? Fresh, it contents I think 8 different natural chemicals that do either of:

    * kill bacteria
    * kill or hinder virus (that is unusual, but has been proved)
    * strengthens the immune system

    2. Try a "Trollmor's crossword for goats": Big bowl, preferably made of plastic. Half or whole filled with fine hay, fine grass, or hacked the same. On top pour out 2-3 dl of oats or other favourite goodies. The goat touches the grain/pellets, and they start disappearing between the straws. Goat starts searching for the goodies, and gets rather concentrated. In the mean time you can do many things on her, and she will not notice.
     
  19. Dwarf Dad

    Dwarf Dad Well-Known Member

    1. Crush and spread on the hoof?

    2. Brilliant! I will have to try this.
     
  20. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Probably not. Most of us use garlic in an oral capacity. However, Trollmor may actually mean to put it on the hoof.
     
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