[sgian]

Some of you may have seen this yesterday in another forum. I was wondering if perhaps someone here knew the answer.

I found some things that didn't look right, and I was hoping that someone more experienced in this wouldn't mind looking at the pics to see if they don't look right. The heart looked like a portion had burst, but when I went to get the camera the dog snuck over and ate the heart. It seems odd that he only ate the heart and then left.

-There was very little blood, apparently it had mostly coagulated.
-The lungs were pink and full of a white foam that bubbled out when pressed. There was a large blister on one of the lungs, which I took a picture of.
-The stomachs were all soft, and almost everything looked digested. There was one thing in the big stomach that looked kind of like a cherry pit, but it was soft and crushed easily when pressed with the flat of the knife.
-There was no fluid in the cavity.
-the worst smell was from opening the stomach cavity, although I didn't pierce any of the stomachs or intestines when cutting it open. I assume the smell was from laying dead all night before we found her. The contents of the stomachs didn't seem very strong after that, but drinking unfiltered well water from a plastic cup reminds me so much of the smell that I can't drink from plastic cups right now.
-I didn't notice any holes in the organs except the heart.
-There was a large white sack full of yellow fluid on the liver, along with a bunch of small solid white growths. The liver had a lot of grey in it, especially under the large sack and inside. The liver is a lot lighter and less uniform in color than goat liver pics I saw on the internet, and I didn't see a sack like my goat's in my search.

Here are the lungs. The large clear blister is below my thumb.

This is the behavior before she died...

I have a doe about 1-2 years old who is laying on her stomach and softly moans each time she breathes out. She won't drink water and she even refuses rabbit pellets (which all our goats love). We tried to stand her up and she moaned a lot (not very loud) but won't stand. However, she can move her legs and hold her head up. She is drooling a little, which just recently started to foam, and about an hour ago wet herself without getting up. We have not noticed any scours for the last couple days. She seemed ok earlier today, and left for the afternoon. When we came back she and her buckling were in the garage and she was laying down. This goat still hasn't blown her winter coat, and seems to feel better when we brush her.

She doesn't have stiff or expanded sides like bloat. Her sides are soft, and in certain spots (like behind the ribs halfway down the side pushing forward) she does occasionally moan a little more when I push in. We suspect it might be something to do with worms, or a reaction to the worming a couple days ago, or maybe eating too many oak leaves or sampling cherries on the ground? She looks slightly dehydrated but not bad. When her skin is pinched and pulled, it goes back in place quickly but not as quickly as her buckling's.

For the past few days she has been in the yard with access to oak, cherry, and under the rabbit cages (she loves to clean up the rabbit pellets that the rabbits kick out, she is used to eating them). The only new thing was that the cherries were starting to drop. She had been in the pasture for just over a week, and before that she had wandered the yard with her buckling. We often let her wander the yard since it is closer to the house when we bottlefeed her buckling and they aren't very interested in escaping (they only escaped once when someone left the gate open).

-Temperature? 102.5
-Symptoms? above
-When was the last time you wormed? We wormed her two days ago with .1 lbs of Rumatel. She was one of the goats from my BIL's place who had pale eyelids and we were waiting for a fecal sample (discussed in a prior thread), but wound up using what we had when she scoured. She had solid pellets after treating her. She was the only goat whom we had to force to eat the wormer. She just stood around staring for perhaps an hour after the worming so I kept an eye on her, then I made her walk around and she behaved more normally.
-Wormed with what and how much? rumatel 0.1 lbs
-Is she pregnant? no
-When did she last have kids? about 8 weeks ago, one buckling
-Is her milk normal if she is in milk? she dried up quickly so we wound up bottlefeeding
-What age? about 1-2 years
-Breed? boer
-Do you vaccinate? no
-What do her lungs sound like when she is breathing? no sound
-Have they had a change of grain? not really. she goes back and forth between the yard and the pasture. In the pasture she has a mineral block, some browsing and lots of grass. In the yard there is more browsing, including access to under the rabbit cages, oak, and cherry.
-How long have you owned this goat? a little over a month

We are trying to get her to drink some water right now.

 

[StaceyRosado]

Some ideas that come to mind (no expert) CL or poisoning by the cherries. I have never had a goat get sick from acorns or oak leaves (that is all we have here besides pine).

He scouring was probably from the cherries but worms could have been a possibilty but due to you saying you didn't find anything pertaining ot worms in her gut I dont know :shrug:

 

[kelebek]

Could there have been cocci or giardia? I know that some intestinal parasites are not visable to the eye.

I am not sure what the lesion on the lung is, but I would see if you could send it to a Veterinary College or pathology to see what they say.

I am sorry that you lost your goatie :hug:

Allison

 

[liz]

The lesion on the lung definately is not normal and the white sac on the liver...is it possible that was the gallbladder? I don't know...Cl would be a possibility if you noticed enlarged lymph glands when you did the necropsy but it also could have been the cherries that caused her death...you may not have noticed the pits in her gut as she would have chewed them and then the acid would have taken care of the rest possibly leading to the heart muscle bursting...I'm not sure how the poisoning will affect an animal but a superfast heartbeat raises bloodpressure and may have caused the heart to fail :shrug:


Very interesting pics too...though I honestly don't know if I could do that myself, it sure would be easy to find out what happened to the goat..I hope you can get some answers...maybe contact a vet thats willing to check out te abcess on the lung and the lumps on the liver.

 

[Nupine]

So sorry, shouldn't have looked at pic. I ''was'' hungry.
Ashlyn

 

[goathappy]

maybe advanced CL? Although you would see more internal abscesses than that.

The little thingy on her liver doesn't really seem normal, I know chickens are different but I remember butchering chickens and the gall bladder was not that color.

The thing on her lung, did you pop it at all to see what was in it? was it firm or soft?

Did you find any excessive bleeding in the intestines?

 

[sgian]

It probably was CL. Several weeks ago I drew blood from all but my smallest goats and had them tested for CL. I got the results today and it turns out that her blood test was a weak positive. Someone on another forum pointed out that the big white thing was the gallbladder and it should have had green fluid, so the liver failed. The blisters on the liver probably were abscesses.

IIRC the blister on the lung had air in it, either that or clear fluid. It popped easily with the knife.

I butchered the other goat that had a weak CL positive blood test and found a cheesy abscess in the armpit and in the brain. I'm getting tired of this stuff. I'd rather be petting and feeding these goats than butchering my favorites, but I've got another CL goat to do tomorrow.

 

[liz]

I am so sorry it has turned out this way. But better you erradicate the diseas than have it spread thru your healthy herd :hug:

 

[StaceyRosado]

I hope you butchered them in a tarp and not onto your property. I am so sorry you had to do that though :hug: :tears:

 

[sparks879]

from the symptoms its sounds like poisening, the oak and cherry would have done it. Too much can be fatel. CL is horrible, but i have never read anything about it killing a goat. Im sure if there were enough internal abcess' on the brain and lungs it woul, but it would be slow. A goat that is fine and then goes down hill like that is something different.
beth

 

[liz]

I agree Beth, as fast as this otherwise healthy goat went down it had to be poisoning from the cherry...I know that it's either arsenic or cyanide in the "pitted fruit trees" that cause the poisoning. It is a shame either way, poisening or other cause but as you said, Cl is a disease that doesn't cause a sudden death.