Goat is showing dominance towards my son and I

Discussion in 'Pack Goat Training' started by StarckRanch, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. jschies

    jschies Well-Known Member

    Aug 14, 2014
    I have my son's old cattle show stick. When my 6 month bucklings decided that they could push on me, I started just swinging the show stick back and forth perpendicular to the ground between them and my legs, and wacked some boys on the side of the face. They didn't like that and stay a respectful distance away now when I am feeding. Most of them just stayed back without it hitting them. The effect was much different that when I tried slapping at them with my hands. I know it doesn't sound real nice, but they have to be taught to respect humans or they WILL be dangerous.
     
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  2. Suzanne_Tyler

    Suzanne_Tyler GreenTGoats

    Jul 19, 2014
    US
    That would still be taken as a challenge.
     
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  3. goat girls

    goat girls Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2017
    New mexcico
    huh, no offense but I have used this in the past with no problem
     
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  4. Keepsake

    Keepsake Member

    70
    Apr 8, 2017
    The horns on him could be very dangerous too. My bucks have never shown dominance like that thank god but i have heard the stick method works, from other goat people.
     
  5. StarckRanch

    StarckRanch Member

    26
    Mar 27, 2017
    We do utilize a spray bottle since we got them with water. I will try the vinagar. I think our next step with him is to catch him in the act and flip him once again but keep him down longer if that doesn’t work we will seek out other options. Our other goats haven’t shown any dominance and they actually watch out for my son which is nice. It’s interesting though because they were all bottle raised Tenkara our trouble one is the only one who was older and didn’t get many bottle from us. We love them all and even Tenkara so we are hoping we can establish that understanding with him.
     
  6. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    You say he is a wether. Are you certain both testicles descended? If only one testicle was "gotten" then he would still be a buck.

    Now, I'm not excusing, or saying bucks are allowed to be this way. Not at all.

    Just, it might be a slightly different problem to handle.
     
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  7. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    I use the "hat" technique quite frequently when teaching trail manners. It's not ok for my goats to pass me on the trail, and I use a hat or a leafy tree branch to whack them in the face as they start to pass me. I'll also use it to keep a goat from walking on my heels. There's no challenge in this technique because you're not facing the goat. All it does is extend your personal space and teach him that he can't pass you, or if he does pass he must go way around. This is a very non-aggressive way of establishing your authority and your personal space without ever taking on a confrontational role. Little things like this, if done consistently, can work wonders for teaching a goat his place without initiating a fight.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  8. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    That was very well explained, Damfino.
     
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  9. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    It's not uncommon for wethers to display these behaviors at this age. I very much doubt he's still "half buck". ;)
     
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  10. StarckRanch

    StarckRanch Member

    26
    Mar 27, 2017
    Yeah he is definitely a wether. Both testicals were successfully banded.

    Damfino so we get out with our boys quite often and I was curious my husband walks in front of the pack string and I walk behind all the goats so I’m last on line simply because I can’t keep up with my long legged husband do you think me being in the back is an issue?
     
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  11. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Brilliant thought there.
     
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  12. StarckRanch

    StarckRanch Member

    26
    Mar 27, 2017
    It is a good thought however still doesn’t explain the dominance towards my son as he is to young to pack with us. And they are being raised as pack goats so in the end no matter if I’m in front of him or behind him he needs to understand humans are always above goat.
     
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  13. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Yes, I completely agree. But I thought it was a brilliant look at how the goat might be seeing it. I think you are very smart.
     
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  14. StarckRanch

    StarckRanch Member

    26
    Mar 27, 2017
    I do think he may think my son and I are goats and lower on the totem pole but I wish I was smart enough to know how to show him we are part of the pack but we are above you!
     
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  15. jschies

    jschies Well-Known Member

    Aug 14, 2014
    What Damfino does is similar to what I do with my show stick. I just wave it between the goats and me until they back off. I guess that makes sense that they don't see it as a "challenge". It is much different that touching or hitting them with a hand.
     
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  16. goat girls

    goat girls Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2017
    New mexcico
    I have been doing this with Mufasa lately when i'm headed home because he wants to run home
     
  17. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    Absolutely! If you observe a line of goats on a trail, the head honcho walks in front followed by his next-in-command and so on. The goat at the rear is usually the low man on the "goatem pole" at home. If the ones in back try to pass their superiors, they get whacked. If they go way around and manage to get ahead, the dominant goat will bonk them in the rear and bite their tail until they either run far ahead or fall back behind.

    To goats, body language is everything. Punishing bad behavior doesn't really work if your body language is telling them that you're the low man in the pecking order. When we hike, goats go in back. If they pass us on the trail, we don't try to chase them down, but at some point they will eventually stop to browse and then we put them back where they belong and we do our best to keep them there. For the first two years, you'll spend a lot of time putting your goats back in place, but as they mature the training will start to stick and they'll stop trying to get ahead.

    I'm curious where your "problem goat" stands in your herd's pecking order and where he walks on the trail. If he's low man on the goatem pole and walks directly ahead of you on the trail, his behavior makes total sense. If he's the most dominant goat in the herd, it also makes sense. Otherwise, I'm going to guess that his behavior goes back to the people who bottle raised him. He may have been allowed to get away with bad manners, or else was not handled enough outside of feeding time, and now he thinks he can walk all over people. Either way, teaching him to take a place behind on the trail will give you a psychological edge. At home, since you can't really enforce the "walk behind" rule, get a riding crop or pick up a stick and enforce your personal space. Dominant goats don't let their subordinates walk super close to them. You can enter your goat's personal space any time you want, but he's not allowed to enter your space without permission.

    Make a point of touching your goat on the hindquarters. Many times, a goat that is acting dominant won't let people touch his hindquarters. Goats mount each other to show dominance, so when you touch your dominant goat on the hindquarters he's likely to take personal offense at your "invasion" of his space. Train him to accept it. If he doesn't like you to touch his hind end, you may need to tie him up at first so you can work with him safely. He needs to learn that you are in charge so you can touch him wherever and whenever you please. Once your goat learns to respect you, you can train him to respect your son.
     
  18. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Damfino...Goat Whisperer.
     
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  19. StarckRanch

    StarckRanch Member

    26
    Mar 27, 2017
    Damfino we have five. Three are 8mo and two are 4mo. In the pack string he is the third goat and in the goatem pole he is third man also. Our two oldest bottle raised babies are the “bosses” our youngest bottle fed babies are at the bottom at the time.
     
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  20. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    Ah, so he's the third of the 8-month-olds, which from his point of view is pretty much "bottom rung". The babies don't really count at this point. Your problem goat is beneath his peers and that's really all that matters to him. He's trying to keep you under him so he doesn't fall any lower in his perceived pecking order. Too bad! He's at a very good age to learn his place. Teaching him his place is the hard part. Keeping him there is much easier. You'll find that if you hike behind your husband with the dominant goats behind you, they will keep the problem child behind them and further enforce your position in the herd. Let your more respectful dominant goats do the grunt work for you as often as possible. You'll still have to engage with him directly sometimes, but letting your naughty goat see you walk in front of the guys that beat him up gives you a psychological advantage.
     
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