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I’m so sorry for your loss. That’s heartbreaking. I hope you don’t beat yourself up too much. You had no way of knowing this would happen and it sounds like you are an excellent goat caretaker. (((Hugs)))
 

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I'm so sorry! I hope your next kidding goes better. Most kiddings are uneventful!
It might be good to give some selenium gel to your remaining doe who's due, and start her on a small amount of alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets. Those will hopefully help her have stronger contractions to push kids out faster. It could be that your doe wasn't deficient in either of those things, and this was just one of those things that happens.
If she starts really pushing and you don't see a kid within 15 or 20 min., it is good to go ahead and intervene as gently as possible, to get the kid out.
I know you did all you could, and I do hope all goes well from here!
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Bottle babies are actually easy. Dont over feed and let them stay warm. Dont give milk replacer. Dont feed water in the bottle. At 6 weeks do a fecal. Always make sure their temps are at about 101.5 to 103... bottle never less than 101.... you will be a grwat goat momma
Bottle babies are doing great so far. Our other goat is allowing the one baby to nurse
Bottle babies are actually easy. Dont over feed and let them stay warm. Dont give milk replacer. Dont feed water in the bottle. At 6 weeks do a fecal. Always make sure their temps are at about 101.5 to 103... bottle never less than 101.... you will be a grwat goat momma
You said "Don't" give milk replacer? Our other doe who just gave birth took one of the orphans and is nursing him with her other two. But we have been feeding the other little boy milk replacer with probiotics. Is that not what we should be feeding him? :( So far he has been eating well for us. He is eating 7-8 ounces four times a day. Thanks for your encouragement and your help.
 

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I’m so sorry for your loss! That is so heartbreaking! Bottle babies are easy, for people who have time for them. I always keep my bottle babies inside my house, with a diaper on them, and feed them a little bit every hour. If you watch goats, they feed their kids small doses a lot, so don’t overfeed the kids though. Make a kind of goat calendar and keep track of how often you feed them. Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I’m so sorry for your loss. That’s heartbreaking. I hope you don’t beat yourself up too much. You had no way of knowing this would happen and it sounds like you are an excellent goat caretaker. (((Hugs)))
That is exactly what I have been doing. I can't get that poor thing out of my mind. I really failed her. If only I could go back to Saturday when she had her babies and do things differently. If I hadn't been so ill myself, I would have been more attentive to what was happening. Maybe earlier doses of antibiotic would have made a difference, and she was probably dehydrated. I just keep rolling it all over in my head. Not right that she isn't with her babies. Thank you for your kind words though. I am amazed at how supportive and helpful everyone has been. It means a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
I’m so sorry for your loss! That is so heartbreaking! Bottle babies are easy, for people who have time for them. I always keep my bottle babies inside my house, with a diaper on them, and feed them a little bit every hour. If you watch goats, they feed their kids small doses a lot, so don’t overfeed the kids though. Make a kind of goat calendar and keep track of how often you feed them. Hope this helps.
Definitely keeping track of how much and how often we bottle feed. I WISH I could bring him into the house with me, but my husband would not be a fan. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I'm so sorry! I hope your next kidding goes better. Most kiddings are uneventful!
It might be good to give some selenium gel to your remaining doe who's due, and start her on a small amount of alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets. Those will hopefully help her have stronger contractions to push kids out faster. It could be that your doe wasn't deficient in either of those things, and this was just one of those things that happens.
If she starts really pushing and you don't see a kid within 15 or 20 min., it is good to go ahead and intervene as gently as possible, to get the kid out.
I know you did all you could, and I do hope all goes well from here!
This was our very first attempt with kidding. I have so many questions... did we intervene too soon? Was my husband too rough with her? Did he cause her to tear? What if we wouldn't have helped her.. would the kids have died? Was she bleeding internally? Or was it an infection that we could have curbed with having penicillin on hand? There is so much I am still learning about goats. And I am learning that most large animal vets don't look at goats as pets. They are just "livestock." :( And there is so much that I am realizing I do not know. Like selenium gel..? What is that? And where do I get alfalfa hay? How is that different from the hay I buy for them now from the local farmer. I will look up information and see where I can get this. She is due next week and we are out of covid quarantine on Friday.
 

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This was our very first attempt with kidding. I have so many questions... did we intervene too soon? Was my husband too rough with her? Did he cause her to tear? What if we wouldn't have helped her.. would the kids have died? Was she bleeding internally? Or was it an infection that we could have curbed with having penicillin on hand? There is so much I am still learning about goats. And I am learning that most large animal vets don't look at goats as pets. They are just "livestock." :( And there is so much that I am realizing I do not know. Like selenium gel..? What is that? And where do I get alfalfa hay? How is that different from the hay I buy for them now from the local farmer. I will look up information and see where I can get this. She is due next week and we are out of covid quarantine on Friday.
You will find so much good information by searching all those various topics here on TGS. You can buy selenium/e gel online. You can get it off Amazon, or any livestock farm supply company, like Jeffers. It may be available at your local Tractor Supply or farm store, too. For alfalfa hay, you can ask at your local feed store, or even just search Craigslist. It may be hard to get this time of year, though, unless the farmers around you have already started haying for this year. Alfalfa pellets should also be available from your local feed store, or Tractor Supply. Not all goats need alfalfa, but it is high in calcium, and provides extra nutrition that does often need for a healthy kidding and to keep a good milk supply for their growing kids. Often times, horse people will feed their horses alfalfa hay, so you could check at a local horse farm, too, and see if they could point you in the right direction for buying some of your own.
I am a visual learner, so I watched quite a number of YouTube videos before my first kidding season, and those were so helpful to me. Of course, each kidding is different, and you have to do what you think is best in the moment, since you are really the only one there, observing your animals. Please don't beat yourself up too much! We all make mistakes as we're learning. And sometimes, even with experienced goat owners who are doing absolutely everything they can, you still will lose lives.
 

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I'd also like to mention, if you do end up adding alfalfa, or making other feed changes, it is good to do that very slowly. Or you will upset to your doe's rumen.
I think that the very best way to help your doe have a good kidding, is to provide good nutrition, and plenty of exercise, in a stress-free environment, where she feels safe.
 

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Bottle babies are doing great so far. Our other goat is allowing the one baby to nurse

You said "Don't" give milk replacer? Our other doe who just gave birth took one of the orphans and is nursing him with her other two. But we have been feeding the other little boy milk replacer with probiotics. Is that not what we should be feeding him? :( So far he has been eating well for us. He is eating 7-8 ounces four times a day. Thanks for your encouragement and your help.
I believe what @Tanya means is that milk replacer is generally not as good for them as just store bought whole cow milk. It can cause babies to have upset tummies. I do hear that Land O' Lakes makes a good replacer though. I'm not the best to discuss this with, but I'm just relaying information I remember learning.
 

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This was our very first attempt with kidding. I have so many questions... did we intervene too soon? Was my husband too rough with her? Did he cause her to tear? What if we wouldn't have helped her.. would the kids have died? Was she bleeding internally? Or was it an infection that we could have curbed with having penicillin on hand? There is so much I am still learning about goats. And I am learning that most large animal vets don't look at goats as pets. They are just "livestock." :( And there is so much that I am realizing I do not know. Like selenium gel..? What is that? And where do I get alfalfa hay? How is that different from the hay I buy for them now from the local farmer. I will look up information and see where I can get this. She is due next week and we are out of covid quarantine on Friday.
1) Don't think you intervened too soon. The standard is if they are in full labor for more than 30 minutes you need to check.
2) Do not think your husband was too rough. His hand would be bigger than yours so that would be rougher but we put our whole hand in there often when they are kidding. My neighbor who helped us with birthing is awful rough, always intervenes because she sees no reason for them to labor long, feels like it's better to 'help them along' so I can't imagine he was too rough. When that baby comes out, she's pulling on their legs and if they don't come out soon enough she's in there up to her elbow.
3)I've seen pictures of some pretty bad tears and mother did not die. We had one who had a tear, vet had us just give her antibiotic shot as a preventative mostly.
4) We are lucky to have a vet good with goats, seems most here are not as lucky. Even so, I feel I learn more on here than from the vet. A wealth of information here and you were lucky to find it. It took me 3 years of goats to find this very informative site.
5) Selenium gel, you can get online and see how bad the selenium is in your area, and even though we are not in a low selenium area, we give selenium to our goats.
6) We only add alfalfa pellets when moms are about to kid and keep it up while they are nursing. Don't know if that is right or wrong.
7) I know you're looking for answers as to why you lost your mama. No answers there. It was weird she was contracting so long after her babies were born.
So sorry for the loss, can't help your heart there :(
 

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And one more thought, have an antibiotic on hand and syringes. Always good to have on hand. And copper and selenium with vitamin e.

We never imagined goats were so high maintenance when we got into goats. We just thought they were cute and could eat tin cans. lol They are high maintenance but they are so stinkin cute.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
1) Don't think you intervened too soon. The standard is if they are in full labor for more than 30 minutes you need to check.
2) Do not think your husband was too rough. His hand would be bigger than yours so that would be rougher but we put our whole hand in there often when they are kidding. My neighbor who helped us with birthing is awful rough, always intervenes because she sees no reason for them to labor long, feels like it's better to 'help them along' so I can't imagine he was too rough. When that baby comes out, she's pulling on their legs and if they don't come out soon enough she's in there up to her elbow.
3)I've seen pictures of some pretty bad tears and mother did not die. We had one who had a tear, vet had us just give her antibiotic shot as a preventative mostly.
4) We are lucky to have a vet good with goats, seems most here are not as lucky. Even so, I feel I learn more on here than from the vet. A wealth of information here and you were lucky to find it. It took me 3 years of goats to find this very informative site.
5) Selenium gel, you can get online and see how bad the selenium is in your area, and even though we are not in a low selenium area, we give selenium to our goats.
6) We only add alfalfa pellets when moms are about to kid and keep it up while they are nursing. Don't know if that is right or wrong.
7) I know you're looking for answers as to why you lost your mama. No answers there. It was weird she was contracting so long after her babies were born.
So sorry for the loss, can't help your heart there :(
Your note helps ease my mind a little. She was pushing over an hour and the buckling’s tips of his feet and nose was the only thing my husband could see. I dont think I will ever know why but she started pushing again that evening and next day. Maybe the swelling? Maybe the vet was wrong and there was still something inside? I do not know. But I can only take all of this advice and pray that our next doe has an easy delivery next week. I’m going to get some alfalfa pellets and some selenium and antibiotic. And I will continue to read on here for information and do my very best! Thank you so much for taking your time to help this broken hearted goat owner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Thanks Mellonfriend. I was typing while Gizmo was jumping ontop of me as if he was a few weeks old.... which he is not... lol.

How are the babies doing?
Babies seem to be doing well! We are watching them closely. They are playing with the other two babies and are eating good. :) My heart can’t take losing her babies too. We are trying our best to hold on to them. Thank you for checking in!
 
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