Goat-UC blockage

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by CParker912, May 30, 2010.

  1. CParker912

    CParker912 New Member

    4
    May 29, 2010
    5 year old male goat, trouble urinating..first noticed on Monday.
    Ive been giving a natural drench I found online ("fresh fruit", lemon juice) and also some probotics which have Latic Acid...until the Acid 4 Way Pak I ordered arrives Tuesday if he makes it that long.
    Also giving ocassional low doses of Ace and Banamine days he seemed painful, and vet did cut the end of his penis but didn't have any other recommendations.

    His pain level seems to have decreased and he has been much more active and brighter, nibbling on hay and dribbling urine the past two days.
    Any additional advice??? anything else I can do to help him??
     
  2. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California

  3. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    as long as he is still dribbling there is hope thats good. Been through this before but thankfully he pulled through for me.

    Sounds like you are doing what you can for him - do you have any pectin available? its the stuff you use to can fruits like peaches and such. You just need to give him somethign thats real acidic to break up any stones that are in his bladder
     
  4. CParker912

    CParker912 New Member

    4
    May 29, 2010
    I think Pectin and the "Fresh Fruit" stuff are the same..used for canning and keeping fruits from browning, I am giving him that and lemon juice..

    From reading others posts sounds like some have used Vitamin C tablets, aspirin, parsley and Dex..anyone have more info on dosage and frequentcy? I know about AC but cant find any at all, Acid Pak is on the way, will be here tuesday...

    Hes still with me this am, was sound asleep when I went to check on him but he woke up, went to his normal places and still seems perky and interested.

    How long should I continue? Something must be helping because his pain has continued to decreased as the week went by.
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    ok yah I thought the fresh fruit might have been but I wasnt positive.

    I am not sure about the amount of Dex that you would need to get from a vet or someone else on here.

    You are giving banamine so thats better then aspirin. not sure what the parsley would do ??

    as to the Vitamine C tablets, give as many as you like, its more maintenance really but it certainly wont hurt him at this point.
     
  6. cmjust0

    cmjust0 New Member

    237
    Oct 8, 2009
    I just replied to your email and came looking for this thread.. Sorry it took me so long. :(

    As for Acid Pack...I have it, and used it. Also used Ammonium Chloride. Figured out to late that the UC was gone, and I was trying to fight muscle spasms and inflammation with acid...totally ineffective.

    Acepromazine helps...I hit him with it it once a day for probably a week. Its primary function w/ regard to UC is as a smooth muscle relaxer. Spasms are part of his problem right now.

    Something else we tried for spasms was a drug called dibenzyline (phenobenzamine).. They give it to cats and horses to stop spasms in the sigmoid flexure...the goat tolerated it well, and it seemed to make him "drippy" all the time. I'd use Ace if I had Ace, but dibenzyline is perhaps something to throw at your vet..

    ***DEXAMETHASONE***...get him on it right away, and keep him on it. Banamine's good for inflammation, but Dex is waaaaay better, and I'm certain that another BIG part of his problem right now is inflammation. Dosage is 1ml/20lbs *IM*.. I'd probably hit him with the full strength dosage for about three days, then taper him off of it over maybe a week or so. Accompany it with some type of antibiotic, though...it weakens the immune system severely.

    If at all possible, have him ultrasounded in about a week. The vet should be able to see if he's still got a bladder full of UC.....if you use AC/Acid Pak, though, he probably won't.

    Oh, also.....do not -- I repeat -- DO NOT let the vet attempt a catheter. A goat's urethra makes a hairpin turn at the sigmoid flexure, and shoving a catheter around in there will only do more damage. There's NO WAY he's going to get a cathether into the bladder from the tip of his weenis, so there's absolutely no point in trying. Don't allow it.

    Trust me on that...I allowed it. Not great. Goat lived, but I think he'd do more than dribble today if not for an attempted catheterization.

    We didn't know, though.. We were just winging it. And the goat's stil alive, sooooo.. :)

    Best of luck!!!!!
     
  7. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    How is he doing? Please give us a update.
     
  8. CParker912

    CParker912 New Member

    4
    May 29, 2010
    We had to put Johnny down on Monday. He fought for 2 weeks, showing great improvement, was almost normal and then we think another stone traveled into his uretha. He was in a lot of pain, and his uretha was rock hard :-( It was close to rupturing and he was down to barely a trickle again. I will miss my big man but am assured we did everything for him and he had a great 5 years here. I purchased 2 Nubian babies to keep my Boer company as he was really missing Johnny also. Thanks for you help, especially cmjust0!
     

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  9. citylights

    citylights Member

    824
    Jul 3, 2009
    Southern California
    Aww - sorry to hear you lost your boy -- you sure did the right thing though. After reading your post, I think I need to get more prepared for someting like this. I've been lucky so far, but certainly don't want to tempt fate.

    I had a friend last year who had a wether that was completely blocked. We took him to the vet to have him put down, and the vet decided he wanted to try something he'd heard about, but not done (he did it for free for my friend, so IDK the cost). He tapped the bladder and pulled as much urine out as he could and replaced it with a acidic solution that was supposed to dissolve the stones. It's obviously quicker than trying oral solutions, plus he knew exactly what % acid he was using. It worked!!! The wether has been healthy for over a year now!
     
  10. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I'm sorry you lost your boy, you did what you could and made the decision that was toughest and the most unselfish of all by freeing him of his pain :hug:
     
  11. elchivito

    elchivito Active Member

    635
    Apr 18, 2010
    Sorry to hear about your boy. You did all you could. Anyone with bucks or wethers, esp. wethers should keep Ammonium Chloride on hand. Hoegger's carries it and it's cheap and doesn't spoil. When my old bag of bones wether started to throw stones about 6 months ago I didn't have any, and after an incredible search figured out that stained glass makers use it in block form to clean the tips of their soldering irons. I got a block of it from a lady who makes stained glass here locally, I'm sure she thought I was quite nuts, ground it up and used it on him. It worked. It's a much stronger acid than fruit fresh or vitamin C, which are basically the same thing.
    By the way, Pectin and FruitFresh are not the same thing. Pectin is used to set jams and jellies and is a soluble fiber. It is Ph neutral.I can't imagine it would help acidify urine. FruitFresh on the other hand is ascorbic acid (vitamin C), or maybe citric acid, both are antioxidants used in canning to preserve fruit/vegetable color and prevent browning. It's useful for UC when ACh is unavailable.
    I think other than the big giant NO NO, grain for wethers, hard water is often the culprit. I don't know how many neutered tomcats we've had over the years who blocked up with stones and caused giant vet bills, recommendations for expensive food they wouldn't eat, etc. We started putting distilled water in the cats' water bowls and haven't had a single incident since. Well, obviously you can't water goats with distilled water but you can acidify their water if your water is hard. We used to use ACV and still do occasionally because the animals all like it, but it's too expensive to use daily and we found out using Ph test strips on our water buckets that it really doesn't acidify the water that much anyhow. We started experimenting with citric acid, available in bulk from cheesemaking suppliers and other places. All it takes for our water to get it down to just a tick on the acid side of the scale is 1/2 tsp. per gallon of water. 3 lbs of citric acid lasts about half a year, and we're watering 2 dozen animals. It's important not to over acidify the water, as there are other kinds of stones that can form from that. My old wether was also a huge consumer of baking soda, for no other reason than he liked it. I think that may have played a part as BS is way over on the base side of the scale, it may have thrown his pee out of balance. No more BS for the old man either. Forgive my wordiness, these are just some personal observations.
     
  12. cmjust0

    cmjust0 New Member

    237
    Oct 8, 2009
    I really hate to hear you lost him. Keeping him alive for two weeks is about a week and a half longer than most folks are able to do...you obviously tried really hard.

    I'm really sorry..wish I could have been more help. :(
     
  13. mrs. lam

    mrs. lam New Member

    Apr 20, 2010
    I'm sorry. I hope the new goats will help the others get over the loss. :hug:

    Gina
     
  14. CParker912

    CParker912 New Member

    4
    May 29, 2010
    Thanks everyone! I do miss him, something terrible but the two new babies are great at helping take the ache away! They are hysterical. Ive learned way more about UC than I ever wanted to know. One of the main problems, according to my vet is that he was banded very, very early and his uretha,etc didnt have a chance to develop as he should have....:-(