The Goat Spot Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wanted to see if anybody had any insight into this...As of yesterday, we had two nannies and their three babies. We had more but one died and we sold the others. About two months ago, we wormed two young billies with Ivomec. One was already weak as could be and stayed weak up til we sold him to somebody who had the time to put into him. The other, who was about 3 months old, died within 24 hours. We had heard that that sometimes happened with goats treated with Ivomec and guessed that it was a fluke. We also wormed Dottie, one of our nannies, that same and other than some irritation where we injected her with it (our fault), she was fine. And she was fine until about a week ago, when I noticed her not being herself and noticed that she had bottle jaw, so I wormed her again with Ivomec (she's what I would call large, so I did 3cc's) in the armpit, subq., on Friday. We went out of town, and some neighbors kept an eye on her for me. We came back Sunday and the swelling in her jaw had gone down, but she had gotten weaker, but I figured that it was just part of it. We switched her and the other goats to my backyard to have some access to some leafier stuff. Last night, we got home around midnight to find her down on the ground, unable to get up and very weak. My husband and I moved her the barn and elevated her head, gave her some Power Punch with a Benadryl crushed in it because she had gotten bitten by ants while she was down. She swallowed it, but I heard her grind her teeth and I know that's a sign of pain. She looked somewhat bloated so my husband and I kneaded her rumen and belly for an hour trying to get the gas moving. We finally went to bed, and when I checked on her this morning, she passed away about five minutes later. We don't know if it was moving her to leafier, greener stuff that made her bloat and that's what killed her, or if we have a bad batch of Ivomec or what...anybody have any kind of insight into this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,021 Posts
I have had goats get really sick after worming with Ivomec when they had a heavy worm load. I always do it by mouth so it is a fast kill off which is not recommended for a heavy worm load.

How anemic was she (eyelid color)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,284 Posts
I doubt it was the Ivomec itself. Did you run a fecal on any of them? If they had a parasite that was resistant to Ivomec, it wouldn't do any good. There are also a lot of other options as to what could have caused it. The only way to know for sure what happened is to have a necropsy done. It isn't that much in most places, especially if you have a state lab nearby.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
When she died she was really pale and her jaw was swollen. It's shocking to me how quick they can go down...I actually bought SafeGuard yesterday in the hopes of getting her a little healthier to worm her for tapeworms. All of the others are healthy as can be...makes me not want to give them Ivomec anymore, even though I know it probably isn't it..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,284 Posts
I'd get a fecal run on the others (or a herd sample) at the very least. If it's liver fluke, which is one that causes bottlejaw, then regular Ivomec won't touch it and it could have taken her down. Only Ivomec Plus and Valbazen in the US work on liver fluke, but it's better to know what you're dealing with first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ariella42, I didn't do a fecal. I'm calling around today in hopes of finding a vet who treats large animals and who will do house calls in my area. I've always had the idea that Ivomec was THE wormer to use (I know that's inaccurate) so it's been shocking to me that it doesn't seem to work. Like I said, I don't plan on using it on my goats again, not because I necessarily think it killed my goats, but something isn't kosher...do you use anything else?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,284 Posts
We deworm on an as-needed basis and use different dewormers based on what parasite we're after. The last time we dewormed, it was due to liver flukes and we used Ivomec Plus since we had one pregnant and Valbazen can cause birth defects. Some dewormers are more effective than others in certain areas though, so getting hooked up with a local goat vet is a great idea. Even if you can just take a sample to their office for a fecal and talk to the vet, that's enough.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
82,572 Posts
It sounds like bleed out, too many worms letting go from the stomach wall. It can happen when giving Ivomec orally, if the goats are anemic to start.
If they are anemic, Ivomec should be give SQ, so it doesn't release too many worms at one time.


I am so sorry for the losses. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Definitely doing a fecal on the others. I'd hate to see something happen to them. I didn't know that Ivomec won't touch liver fluke...:( I appreciate your help...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I gave it to her SQ last Friday, which I've been concerned about because everybody says it's not as effective, but when I read that giving it orally can cause bleed out, I felt better. It's all a learning experience; I just hate that it was at her expense. She was a great goat: good mom to triplets, nursed well with no issues, and was extremely sassy and friendly. Anywho, found a vet and am taking a sample to them asap. How often should I do a fecal, even when I don't suspect worms?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,103 Posts
I am treating a goat that had bottle jaw. After three weeks of deworming and iron/b12 shots, she is finally getting good color back. If you don't get iron and B12 into them, it is hard for them to recover. Maybe the anemia was the problem, and not the ivermectin. However, we use Cydectin most of the time to worm for barberpole worms. I hope that you don't have any more problems. It is frustrating and heartbreaking!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,606 Posts
Everything is pointing to heavy work load, I totally agree on that BUT your right on the more better greens being bad. I killed a doe doing her a favor of giving her better. A big change is not good at all and if ever you want to do a change like that I suggest starting them out at only 10 minutes and slowly working up to longer. I really don't think this is what killed your doe with the history of her as well as the others, I just wanted to give my 2 cents on that ;) I'm so very sorry for you loss
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
82,572 Posts
Sometimes, a goat is too far down with anemia and worms ect, it is too late or they are in need of blood transfusion to possibly get them to respond and come out of it. They are very hard to read sometimes, when they are going down, and may not show any signs until they are on death's door or found dead, unfortunately.
Sounds as if you did it right, but she was way beyond help at that point, it isn't your fault, we sometimes miss health issues.

Frequency of Fecals depends on if a goat is stressed, been ill ect. Monitor the inner lower eyelid coloring and gums, if it begins to lighten, get a fecal done for worms and cocci.

Glad you are getting a fecal done on the rest of them, good call.

ivomec plus kills liver flukes as well. But not recommend for preggo does IMO.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
14,732 Posts
Oh wow I am so sorry :( Sounds like she had a worm load that got her down and she couldn't recover. Either the worms all released causing blood loss, or she needed a different wormer altogether. One thing I've learned over the years, worming is so frustrating especially if you don't know what your dealing with or what kind of worm load they might have.

If it were me, I'd be keeping an iron supplement on hand, we use the injectible pig iron, but I know people like red cell as well.
Someone else can probably give better idea how much to dose and when, I have dosage for pig iron written down in a notebook, but I can't remember how often I was giving it when we had an anemic doe last year. I know whatever I did worked for our doe.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top