Gonna lose another one.

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by goatweed, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. goatweed

    goatweed New Member

    40
    Feb 29, 2008
    Please help. Already lost one kid. Second one is doing it now. Pretty profuse diarrhea. Anemic - eyelids are white. Starting to dehydrate. He still acts fine and is browsing with the others as well as mom's milk. I just wormed him (ivermectin inj.) and last night I started the 5 day treatment(sulmet) for cocci. His brother, who died yesterday, held on for about a week so I need to start now. They were born on May 1st. I did a fecal on him last night and found very little. A few, maybe 4 or 5, that I found on the slide Looked like Barberpole, Cocci, and Liver Flukes. They are so similar in appearance. Anyway, I don't know what to do. Mom is always getting sick or bouncing back from treatment. ARGGHH!
    I gave his brother Nutri-Drench, Electrolytes, Dextrose, Probios, and Pepto with no luck. He also received ivermectin inj. and safeguard. I treated him for the first day of cocci before he died. I just know what is coming for him and wish I could stop it. Anyone have any ideas? I will continue the Cocci treatment tonight. Probably go ahead and start the Electrolytes too.
     
  2. yonderhill

    yonderhill New Member

    182
    Jan 15, 2009
    Upstate NY
    First thing is to stop the diarrhea... How much Pepto were you giving? How much does the buckling weigh? I think I was giving 3.5cc/10 lbs and giving it 5x a day until stools hardened (about 2days). I would keep up the cocci prevention going, wouldn't bother with safegaurd.. or the ivomec right now. Does he have access to good loose minerals? I would definetly give probios. Really just stopping the diarrhea right now is paramount.. if he can't absorb his nutrients nothing is going to help...

    Jennah
     

  3. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    OK, do you know the temp? It is very helpful if you do.

    I would do some Vit B12. Continue with the Cocci treatment and give some yogurt or probiotic.
    Just a question. How sure are you about the fecal float? Did you do it yourself (it sounded like it) or did you take it to the Vet? I do my own but if I am not sure then I take a sample to the vet because they might be able to see something I do not. Do you have a vet that you can go to? I would try that. If he is dehydrated then they need to get him rehydrate unless you know how to do the rings.

    You said you dewormed him? What was the amount you used?
     
  4. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Absolutely, get the diarhea under control first, BUT do start the cocci meds ASAP with the dose for his weight...under dosing will do nothing but make the parasite resistant. As Sweetgoats said, getting his temp will also help if he would need a stronger antibiotic, B vitamins help with encouraging his appetite and will give him energy.
    So sorry you lost his brother :hug:
     
  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I agree with Liz and Sweetgoats....... :hi5: Also.. you may have to ..give the kid some red cell to build his blood..... :hug:
     
  6. goatweed

    goatweed New Member

    40
    Feb 29, 2008
    Dont know the temp. Will get tonight.
    I have B12 and Probios - will continue cocci treatment
    I did the fecal myself. Probably not the most accurate, but I had very little on the slide. Cant imagine missing it that much. I read today that you need to let it "float" for about 30 mins. I did mine for 15 mins. Also read that many vets will misdiagnose because barberpole, cocci, and liver flukes look so similar. Now I know why! The few I found really had me stumped.
    I gave him 1cc of generic ivermectin injectable orally. (he only weghs about 20 lbs) I think the injectable is supposed to be about 1cc/55lbs but with a pretty large margin.
    He has access to loose minerals, but what is the thought there? (ignorance on my part)
    Will continue with the pepto.
    I have Red Cell. Will start that too.

    Not familiar with the yogurt. I have always use probios. Are these interchangable? Can you elaborate on the yogurt. (type, etc.)
    Thanks again.
     
  7. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Yogurt with live active cultures is interchangeable with the probiotics....both will do the same thing.
     
  8. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    probios and yogrut are similar..because of the microorganisms and such..but probios would be the best choice.
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    How much are you given him of the sulmet?

    Here is the conventional treatment method

    day one 1cc per 5lbs
    day 2-5 1cc per 10lbs

    So for your little guy weighing in at 20 lbs today he should get 4ccs of Sulmet
    tomorr he should get 2ccs and continue that till day 5 of the treatment.

    I try not to give to much pepto unless his runs are real bad due to the fact that you dont know if the sulmet is working or not.

    I am 99.9% sure you are dealing with cocci and not barberpole worms. But if so you treated him for that already with the ivermectin and safeguard.

    The dosage orally for ivermectin is 1cc per 20lbs so you got that right for him

    Drench him with water too if you can - this will keep him hydrated.

    Do you have any banamine? 1/2cc of that would be good IM (in muscle)
     
  10. sealawyer

    sealawyer New Member

    366
    May 31, 2009
    Dew, Texas
    Is sulmet the same as liquid neomycin?
    Dr. Mom, Gwen, says to give the kid 5cc liquid neomycin with 10 cc pepto. Along with probios paste.
    If the scours continue after 3 days then go to the Vet and get some Primor. Gwen says that will stop the scours when nothing else will. But it is expensive!
     
  11. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    neomycin is not sulmet. Neomycin isnt that expensive at least not that I found :shrug:

    Neomycin doesnt treat cocci
     
  12. yonderhill

    yonderhill New Member

    182
    Jan 15, 2009
    Upstate NY
    My thought on the minerals.. a deficiency in mineral..mainly copper, can exascerbate problems, and cause others.. just wanted to make sure he had it available:)

    *how is he doing this evening?

    Jennah
     
  13. ProctorHillFarm

    ProctorHillFarm New Member

    I agree with the others here
    and I really agree with yonderhill on the last comment

    we had a buckling we struggled with cocci and scours for over a month and the only thing that made any difference was some stuff called gastri calm- which is marketed for dogs, but I was desperate for the little guy, and in 2 days he was completely better!! All the gastri calm is, is Zinc and Vit E with some other stuff. So Im thinking he was deficient in one or both of those areas.
     
  14. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    It's not good to give Vitamin B while treating for cocci, right? Defeats the purpose?

    I sure hope he pulls through for you. I am definitely thinking this is cocci. When we had a bottle kid with some problems with runny poo, I switched her milk, treated with Di-Methox, and was giving a bottle of electrolytes in between feedings. It cleared up, so I am not sure what it was. I would get some fluids in him quick.
     
  15. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    B1 is thiamine which is what we wanted depleted while fighting cocci.

    B12 is for hunger and other things. :)
     
  16. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  17. sealawyer

    sealawyer New Member

    366
    May 31, 2009
    Dew, Texas
    Stacey, I hate to disagree, but we have been using liquid neomycin for scours and cocci for years and it has worked well for onset and mild cases and doesn't mess up the rumen.
     
  18. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    Fred, That is what I love about this place. we all learn something new all the time.

    Great information.

    How is the baby? Please give us a update.
     
  19. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  20. goatweed

    goatweed New Member

    40
    Feb 29, 2008
    Very sorry for the delay. Between the holiday and Internet problems totally forgot about the update.
    He is doing better now. Not by a whole lot but better. All I did was continue the Sulmet treament for cocci. I think he is gonna make it now. I did take his temp and it was 102.7 so I didnt worry too much about rumen. I did think that it should be a little since cocci is a rumen problem, but what do i know.
    He is much more perky now. He actually cares when someone walks up to him. Anyway, thanks a million for all the help. Learn something evertytime (the B1 statement above.) I really appreciate all the help.
    Hate to mention it here, but I gotta post a worming question. I will start a new thread.

    Thanks again
    Brad