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Good question. That'll kill a horse.

I once had my Saanan bloat when she got out of the fence and grazed on the yard for a few hours. She normally lived in the horse pasture which is also grassy. I cant explain why she bloated on the lawn grass.

On the other hand I know cows are just fine with clippings. At least I've seen clippings given to them. And since goats and cows both have the rumen type digestion, perhaps it'd work. But I'd suuuuure be careful.
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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The farm I cut my teeth on let grass and tree trimmers dump their loads there and the goats and cows would eat it with no issues. But the cows focused mainly on the grass while the goats hit the tree trimmings. Here I mow about an acre once a week and give them the cuttings. I tossed the idea around about taking clippings from a cutter but seeing how you can have no idea what people put on their lawns, I decided against it. Not to mention you can pass things like tape worm from dogs to goats if the cuttings have poo in em. So you can do it a little but I would select just a few yards you know are safe to feed from. And you also need to read up on Grass tetany to get any idea of when and when not to give cuttings to animals. Just do a search on the net.
 

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Parasites that goats can acquire are species specific. Meaning the parasites from dogs and other creatures are not able to be passed to a goat. Grass does not have very much nutritional value to a goat and it rates low on their priority list and if their not used to the green stuff you can give them bloat if you introduce too much too quickly, be careful especially with the very young and your older goats. Personally I wouldn't waste my time because of the lack of nutritional value, but the leaves, now that's a different story. We feed as much tree trimmings as we can find, and take all the raked up leaves we can get our hands on in the fall. Christmas trees that haven't been sprayed they think highly of too. The reason your Saanan bloated after eating in your yard is because it had only one thing to choose from, grass. In the horse pasture it had a variety of things to eat and I'll bet it wasn't eating much grass.
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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Sorry Dwite but you are wrong. Ringworm, tapeworm, pinworm and roundworms can all be passed not only to other animals species from dogs, cats or any other animal thats infected. They can even be passed to humans as well. In fact, a dog can pass it to say a goat and you can get it from walking around in their pen without shoes on. I dont know about other parasites but I know these 4 can easily be passed to any species that is susceptible to these parasites.
 

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Sorry Dave, but most of what you said is not correct. Ringworm is not a parasite, it isn't even a worm, it is a fungus that is contacted by goats through direct contact with another goat that has it, and not by ingesting grass. Tape worms, in goats, are usually contracted by ingesting plants that have field mites on them that have ingested tapeworm eggs from the feces of an infected animal. Goats can contract tapeworms from another species through the field mite. But the good news is that tape worms are not a threat to adult goats and most producers do not treat for them. As for Pin-worms and Roundworms, they are both species specific and are "NEVER" found in goats.

Reference Sources: Dr.Deb; Langston University's E (Kika) de la Garza
American Institute For Goat Research
 

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Roundworms?

Roundworms aren't found in goats? A quick "Google" search says otherwise. Much to my dismay, a few websites also state that my worming medication of choice, Ivermectin, isn't rated for use in goats.

Could one of the senior goat experts weigh in on this topic and set the record straight, as well as recommend an effective worming medication, dosage, and how frequently to administer medication to the herd?

Thanks, Ken
 

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Your "Google" search classified all internal parasites as either Roundworms or Coccidia. But in fact there are a large number of internal "worm" parasites in goats, none of which are called round worms, as is the round worms dogs can have. For a clearer picture of this issue just skip Google and go to Langston University's site (they are the largest and most thorough goat research facility in the world). If you are still confused email Dr Steve Hart with any questions, he is very reachable. His address is on their site.
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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... have you tried to google search this topic? There is very little information out there on the subject. But I didnt need to google it. I used real world experience and common knowledge as my source as I have seen it. Livestock guardians or dogs of any breed love to eat the goatie berries and pass them on or re infest de wormed livestock. Cats love to use the goat pens at littler boxes. Whats also common knowledge is, if you do have an infestation of worms, you need to worm your house hold pets at the same times. And I dont need to google or quote Dr.s for that. Which would be easy enough.

But as with most goat subjects, there are two sides and defenders of each, which is great. This moves us forward and increases our intellect in regards to goat husbandry. Personally I like to error on the side of caution. Even if I was proven wrong tomorrow, at worst, I took a few extra steps to insure my animals are protected. But if I were proven right...
 

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The fact is, there has been a significant amount of correctly done research on the subject of parasites in goats in the last few years. Quite a bit is known if you just take the time to listen to the ones with the knowledge. My guess is 90% of the goat owners aren't listening. Parasites are the "BIGGEST" health problem with goats if not addressed correctly. Worming all your goats on a set schedule is "NOT" the correct way. Having other species living in the same browsing area as your goats is actually a "correct" strategy for controlling the spread of parasites. Other than tapeworms (which is not a problem for most creatures) the parasites goats generally have can not be transmitted to dogs, cats, horses, cattle or most other species. Worm all creatures only when they "NEED" to be wormed. My goat vet has more experience with goats than all of us combined and has traveled around the world treating goats. She has had large quantities of goats since she was a child. She calms my fears when I'm overly concerned and then solves the problem with a simple fix. That's experience and education working together. I believe in science and research (done correctly). Goats eat tin cans! That's common knowledge, so not all common knowledge is factual.
 

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Dwite, a couple of questions related to your last post:

First, if one should only worm their goats "when needed" (as opposed to doing it on a regular schedule, such as every six months) how do you know when it's "needed"? Do you take a sample of goat-berries in to your vet to have them examined for worms?

Second, assuming your vet is as knowledgeable as you claim, what medication does she recommend for treating worms? (understanding that the answer might depend upon the particular specifies of creepy crawler you're trying to treat). Do you treat the infestation yourself, or do you take your goats in to have the "pro" do the job for you? (I assume that's the best way to know that the correct dosage is being administered).

Ken
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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Its not a fact if it can be opposed by equally qualified doctors, which it is. You may wanna go back and do some readying to make sure it wasnt only talking about Coccidia. So on that subject, we will simply have to never see eye to eye. I am also glad you can put such confidence in your vet, but he/she isnt my vet, in which I put an equal amount of confidence in and he is of a different opinion. So again, on that subject we will never see eye to eye. And as to worming on a schedule, you are both correct and wrong. If you only have a few goats then by all means, take samples and do a parasite count or have your vet do it. Check eyelids and or coat health or whatever other method you want to use to detect parasite loads and treat as needed. This will lessen the chance to build wormer resistant parasites. BUT, here is where you are wrong. If you own / manage a large herd its not only ineffective to do fecals as each animal differs in their resistance to any one type of parasite, making it impossible to get a correct idea of your parasite load. Not to mention with a good sized herd the cost would be expensive unless you owned your own microscope and had the knowledge to use it correctly. So with larger herds it is standard operating practice to worm on a loose schedule. As for what de wormer to use and when to change em... that is a whole other can of worms. Use what works and covers your parasite load and follow the correct worming instructions. Some ppl change wormers every deworming while other stick to the same one for years or until it doesnt work and then change. This entire subject is a hugh gray area that is fiercely discussed over, like Dwite and I.

So again, there are two sides to ever goat management topic. I tell everyone the same thing. This is the way I do it and my opinions because they work. I suggest you take what you hear from others and rework it to what best fits your own herd. Because even though Dwite, I or anyone else for that matter may sound like they are speaking from a factual stand point, ever goat withing every goat herd is different. What works for one person will not always work for the next. There are just to many factors to calculate. Such as blood lines, previous management tactics and even climate and regions...
 

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Hmmmm...rather than making things clearer this thread is making them muddier.

I think I'll go pay a visit to the folks down at WADDL tomorrow; they're only a 5 minute walk from my office. I'll be happy to report back with what I learn from them.

Ken
 

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The biggest problem I've seen with feeding grass clippings to goats is that you may not know what type of chemicals have been used on the lawn. Just the right amount of insecticide might eliminate the need for worming medication (just kidding), but too much could seriously harm your animals. All herbicides and fungicides are also hazardous to their health. Particularly if you are breeding, many broad leaf herbicides (even in trace amounts) will cause problems including aborting, growth retardation, neurological development problems, or lack of milk production. Also, if any type of artificial fertilizer has been used and is ingested by your goats, it can block the blood's ability to absorb oxygen, and will basically suffocate them (see blue baby syndrome in humans).
 

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Also, on the worming issue, I've had all of my goats tested with no trace of any parasites whatsoever, and I've never used any worming medication on them. I use my chickens to keep my goat pastures clean and parasite-free. Turns out birds are remarkably good at following herds of ungulates to sanitize their droppings (at least that's how it's done in nature). This also means that I don't have any flies around my goat manure, and the chickens are getting a much healthier diet as well, which means I'm getting better tasting chicken meat and eggs. That said, if one or all of my goats did need to be de-wormed, I would not hesitate to use medication. The medication is not "good" for the goats though (only good for them in that it gets rid of worms), so if I can avoid using it, I will.
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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How many chickens are you running behind your goats? And how many goats? Here we dont really have a pasture to speak of but we are looking into moving and that move will include irrigated pasture for sure.
 

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Right now, I'm using 24 chickens to clean up after three goats. They're also keeping a couple large compost heaps pest-free, and fertilizing another pasture. I'm a little heavy on the chicken numbers right now because most of them will end up in the freezer, but I've found that three or four chickens per goat is enough to keep everything clean even in warmer climates. In cooler, dryer climates like what we have here in Wyoming, you can get away with about 2 chickens per goat. I've done the same thing with cattle on a larger scale, moving several hundred chickens in a mobile coop behind dozens of cattle. They provide the added benefit of spreading the manure as they pick through it, which improves its effectiveness as a fertilizer. For what it's worth, I've also found that ideally, you want your chickens three days behind the ungulates if you're rotating them frequently, otherwise, just let them in the same pasture together.
 
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