Growing kids!

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by agilitymaster01, Jan 11, 2015.

  1. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    We have 3 kiko kids. One was born 12/4/14 (9lbs at birth, 22lbs at 3wks, and 25 at 5 weeks), and the other two were born 12/10/14. One was 8lbs at birth, the other was 9lbs at birth. At 3 weeks they both weighed 19lbs, and at 4.5 weeks they weighed 22 and 23 lbs.

    My questions are how fast should kids grow and gain weight? The dont look real small, but they seem like they are growing slow. They all had baycox (at 3 wks and at 5 wks/4.5wks), and cd&t shots. I gave jump start paste at 1 week old, and they have free choice feed in a creep feeder, minerals, water, hay, and lots of toys. (Including a kids yellow tube slide). Do you suggest anything different?

    Another thing is that I would like to bottle raise a couple of kids that are going to be born in a few weeks. They will be 100% boer goats. Any suggestions on a feeding schedule/amt. I would like mom to raise them for the first couple of days so they get all the colostrum, and so I do not need to get up at wee hours of the night. ;) at what age is it ok to give the last feeding at 10pm and again at 5am?

    Sorry this is so long, confusing, and obnoxious. ;)

    Thanks for all the help in advance!! :kidblue:
     
  2. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    Hmm, they do seem a little slow, mine usually gain close to or a pound a day, about 0.80-1lbs per day is average here. Their dam may not be producing a whole lot, so they may be a bit behind due to that.
    What is the protein content of the creep feed and what kind of hay?

    For your kids you want to bottle feed, my best advice is don't, use a lambar instead. That way they eat little meals throughout the day whenever they want and you can do whatever you want all day. All you have to do is slowly transition them to cool milk and throw and ice pack in there and it'll keep it cold all day, refill it when necessary. But if you still want to go ahead and bottle feed, I have a system that works here. I would not use the 10% rule, sorry to those that do use it, but your kids will grow a thousand times better than the kids that are raised on it. 10% is only meant to maintain their current size. I just make sure the doe got her CD&T shot, and the kids get as much as they want. My kids are worked up to and regularly raised on 2 gallons a day each. I feed alfalfa and an 18% feed to the kids, and they have water and minerals.
    My 3 month old weaning weights average 80-90lbs depending on their birthweight, genetics, and the kids gender.
     

  3. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    Wow. That is a lot of milk. What
    Do you start them at the ? I have not heard of a lambar. I will need to look it up for sure!

    The creep is a combination calf manna, and sweet 16. The moms had cdt, and selenium vit e before kidding. I give that all the time about a month to 2 weeks before their first due date. One mom (the mom of the single kid) seems to be a better mom than the other, but I don't know if that is completely the reason.
     
  4. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    Ha!! I just looked up lambar. I know what those are I guess I never knew what they were called. Lol so to raise kids on one, you just fill it up and let them eat? I assume half full at first then get more? I really like the idea of bottle feeding to help with their being able to lead better for 4H people. Is that wrong thinking? My boers don't lead for crap even though we handle them all the time. The Kinders were bottle raised and they lead just fine and are friendly.
     
  5. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    My newborns get 24oz each per day and I slowly move it up as they grow. At 8 weeks they are normally drinking close to a half gallon 4x a day, sometimes a half gallon 4x a day depending on the kid. At 5 days old they normally eat 48oz a day each, so I just keep upping it as they grow if I bottle feed.
    But with the lambar, I start kids on a 2 gallon bucket and fill it up so they learn to suck, because the tubes go to the bottom like a straw, and you don't want them getting frustrated when they are first learning if the milk level is too low and they keep sucking air.
    After they get the hang of it, I will put 5-6 kids on a 5 gallon lambar, it'll hold 4 gallons because of the place the holes have to be drilled, and I will normally have to refill it 2-3 times a day when they are eating 2 gallons each. I slowly introduce them to milk from the fridge and add ice packs to keep it cold, it encourages them to eat small amounts frequently, like nursing. If you were to fill it with warm milk, they will normally gorge themselves on it. :p
    Also what I love about lambars, anyone can feed them. I've had bottle kids that wouldn't take a bottle from anyone but me, because they associate me with the milk. Lambar kids associate the bucket with the milk, so anyone can fill it up and throw it in there for them if you get busy :)

    My lambar babies are every bit as tame as the bottle kids, just usually not annoying like the bottle kids. Mine don't come up screaming at me every time they seem me, like bottle kids :lol:
    So training to lead isn't a problem, they are very tame, just not always in the way and screaming :p
     
  6. rebelINny

    rebelINny Well-Known Member

    Feb 7, 2014
    I built a lambar bucket last winter. It has 10 nipples on it. I plan to use it next month when one of my does kid. She had twins last year. Crossing my fingers it works well.
     
  7. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    How long does it take to transition them to cold milk? A couple of days?
     
  8. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    Couple days to a week to transition them from warm milk to cold from the fridge
     
  9. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    So not to ask so many questions, but How do you get the to suck from the lambar?
     
  10. LovinRebelsGoats

    LovinRebelsGoats New Member

    70
    May 26, 2014
    Chatham NY
    Usually they take right to the Bucket....you have to assist for a lil bit by rubbing the nipples on their lips and and getting them to take it.....generally they take right to it .....especially if the Milk and or milk/and Milk replacer are warm....pretty smart when they are hungry and even when they arent....smiles
     
  11. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    You just set them on the nipple and they'll usually start to suck, just like with bottle feeding. They'll pick it up really quick.
    That's why in the beginning you start with a small bucket so you can fill it up to the top so the milk is right there and they don't get frustrated trying to suck it up all the way from the bottom of the bucket. Or you can get the one way valves that keeps the milk from returning to the bottom even if they let go for a split second.
     
  12. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    See, now I have always had a hard time getting kids to take to bottles. We had 3 that needed to be bottle fed for a while and I don't know if it is because the first 3 days they were on mom, and didn't like the transition or what. I will have to do some looking around to find the supplies to make a bucket. I will definatly look for a one way valve! Does it make it harder to suck?
     
  13. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    Nope, it doesn't make it any harder for them, with the valves.
    It is most likely because you are leaving them on the mom too long. I give my kids a bottle full of colostrum and they go straight on the lambar afterwards. I don't let mine nurse off their mom if I'm going to bottle feed ir lambar feed.
    At 3 days old they are already accustomed to moms teats and going for an udder, so a bottle is a foreign experience for them.
     
  14. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    I don't think your Kiko growth rates sound very low - I think 0.5 lb per day is fairly typical. Little Bits wean weights are quite high!

    You mentioned they had coccidia prevention - but have they had any dewormer? Or have you done fecals to rule that out? Kids can be fairly susceptible to tape worms and other internal parasites. We do automatic deworming with Valbazen at the 3-4 week mark.
     
  15. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    I have not. I didn't know that kids could have wormer this early. It is super cold in our barn, and we haven't had any tapeworm issues yet. Does Ivomec+ work, or just regular ivomec? Oral, or SQ?
     
  16. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    Made my lambar tonight. :)
     

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  17. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    The tubs have the one way valves and all. The straws kept trying to curl back up so I had to put the peanut lid with a coffee cup on it. It is sitting in their pen so the milk runs to the straws when it starts to get empty. Kids caught on quick! :)
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
  19. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    We just had a bottle baby pass away from flippy kid. I am wondering if he was over eating on the lambar. I was using cool milk so they would go back for small amounts. Cold milk doesn't slow them down what so ever. Now I just use it to make feeding time easier. :(