HELP!! I need some opinions on deals gone wrong.....

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by heathersboers, Sep 7, 2008.

  1. heathersboers

    heathersboers New Member

    629
    Sep 5, 2008
    Wilson N.C.
    Ok Here goes- the ordeal about Char got me to thinking- I got a good deal on one of my percentage boer does-Cutie Pie. In exchange for me getting her for the price that I did- they get a doeling off of this kidding, bred to their buck.She was supposedly due this week,they were sure of it-but Guess what? She was not pregnant and my son Of DER War Paint bred her, whose kids are going to be worth 2x what they would have been off of their buck. i bought her with the understanding she was due in 3 months, and I was like well, I can give them a doe back-its only 3 months until they are born-Now I have to wait another 5 months for kids-I feel like I should give them the doeling to keep the peace, but isn't it wrong to lie about the doe being bred??? What do you think????
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    at the two month mark it is hard for them to be 100% positive that she was bred, they probably believed she was.
     

  3. heathersboers

    heathersboers New Member

    629
    Sep 5, 2008
    Wilson N.C.
    The only thing is they guaranteed her to be bred,but didn't give me a service memo and they wanted a kid off of that pairing with their buck. they said that when the kids were born they would give me a service memo, putting them in my name was fine and everything but they would be the breeder.. Do I wait and breed her back to their buck and give them a kid? i called and asked them about it and They said they didn't want one off of my bucks bloodline-it isn't what they agreed to, and it wasn't the bloodline they were into-they would decide on a price for her without getting a doe kid back, and for me to call back in 30 minutes. I can't help that she wasn't bred.I have to pay more? What do I do?? Help -Pleeeeese
     
  4. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    If I were you...i'd just pay them more than what you paid for her and be done with the whole thing. It's not your fault the doe was not bred and the agreement was she was bred and they get a doe kid back...well guess what...she's not bred and there are no kids to give. That's their problem. If I were you...i'd definately not give them any kids or even give the doe back...i'd just pay a little more for her or whatever and be done. They will be forever mad at you if you don't pay them a bit more for her. I know I would be a little upset if that happened to me. Good luck and hope you can get this resolved quickly! :thumb:
     
  5. heathersboers

    heathersboers New Member

    629
    Sep 5, 2008
    Wilson N.C.
    Thanks!! I don't want to make them mad, and I hate when things go wrong- I have purchased a lot of my Percentage stock from them- I'm going to call them back tomorrow morning since it is so late to see how much more they want for her, and I just keep the kids-whatever she has, and try to be done with it- I figure it shouldn't be more than about $100. the only reason I agreed to it was to get Cutie Pie-I want to show her-Getting a doeling back was the only way they would sell her to me , but they don't want one off of my buck so????-We'll see... :shrug: .
     
  6. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    sounds reasonable to ask for extra money (basicaly you were getting "a deal" on her because of the doeling back) I hope they are reasonable about the price.



    These threads are all good warnings to people not to get involved in such dealings without a contract --- have witnessess too
     
  7. heathersboers

    heathersboers New Member

    629
    Sep 5, 2008
    Wilson N.C.
    Thats fine- I don't mind paying-I think that's fair because I get the kids- I just hope it's not a lot.
     
  8. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

    155
    Oct 29, 2007
    Northwest WI
    Yeah, thats a sticky situation too. However, when it comes to paying more for her because they no longer want a doeling - well don't bred does sell for more then open does ?If so, basically the price and deal you got were on a higher value animal - so i really wouldn't pay much more for her as she was bought open vs. bred like she should have been. Yes they would have got a doeling back from her - but you would still have got any other kids she would have had, and now you just have the doe. I would maybe pay a little more to make it a happy deal, but i would not be paying $100 or more.

    Good luck, i hope to hear a good update - i'm not sure that i'll ever do another deal like this again unless we have a written contract with everything possible discussed - i'm a bit gun shy now :GAAH:
     
  9. trob1

    trob1 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Middle TN
    Well here is how I look at it. What if she had been bred and aborted or only had bucks. What then? These kind of deals really shouldnt be going on imo. Too much can go wrong. Do you have a contract in writing? If you do what does it say about if there are no doelings born or if the doe aborts? If there is no contract then imo you paid the lower price of a bred to so they could get a doeling back at no further charge and now that the doe wasnt bred you paid the price of an unbred doe so call it even. With pregnant does there is no guarantee and they really shouldnt be sold with one imo.

    If this were me I would tell them "I was told I was buying a bred doe at a lower price so they could get a doeling out of the breeding and she wasnt bred so you are welcome to get another chance at a doeling out of another try at breeding her with their buck next year or we can call it even."

    I would get it in writing what will happen if the breeding doesnt take again and if there are no doelings out of the breeding. Good luck these kind of deals almost always go wrong.
     
  10. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    I totally agree with Teresa.

    I would NEVER ever buy or sell a goat with stipulations like that. Thing always go wrong and we hear about it all the time here.
    I had a doe that I sold to a lady but she was bred. I really wanted the doe IF she had one. I told the lady that she could HAVE the buck (after I wether it) if she has one. The way I made she of all that was I kept the doe until she kidded, that way it was not her fault if something happened to the doe or the babies. It was all in witting to protect us both. OH, I had her put down half the payment for the so she could not back out and in the contract it said that the only way she was to get her money back was if the doe died for what ever reason, and if that was to happen she got first choice of my other does for sale.
     
  11. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I agree that since you bought the doe at a "bred" price with a kid pick back - either she can have a kid pick from your breeding OR call it even. I would NOT give her the option of rebreeding next year and then waiting for a doeling from HER lines. I think the sooner that you get this done and over with the better for you both. If she does NOT want a kid from your breeding, then I would say no more then $100.00 and she gives you the papers for the doe.

    Personally if it was me I would tell her it was a wash - or that when the doe delivers with your breeding she can have the doe back and you want your money back from her. It is not your fault that she did not deliver from her buck and now your buck bred her so is she going to pay you a buck fee to get the doeling?

    Sorry, rambling thoughts in my brain!

    LOL!

    Allison
     
  12. heathersboers

    heathersboers New Member

    629
    Sep 5, 2008
    Wilson N.C.
    Hi- Thanks for the input everyone-I do have the papers to Cutie- they have been transferred and everything -I talked to the people I got Cutie from and they told me that a doeling off of her was worth at least $200 to them, and that I should pay that much since they don't want it. I told them nicely that I wasn't paying them that because i am offering them a doeling- I can't help that she wasn't bred, and I feel that what I paid for this "bred" doe equals about the same as buying her "open". The deal was - I pay $300 for a "bred" Cutie and they get a doeling for selling her to me for that price.I keep whatever else she has. I figure (correct me if Im wrong please)that since she wasn't bred, she is worth the same amount because I don't get any kids from that breeding either. They told me if she had bucklings they didn't want one back either, because they can't be registered-If this happened they said just keep Cutie for what I paid for her and the bucks. I am going to call them right now and solve this thing :sigh:
     
  13. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    No way would I give her 200 additional!!! They are N-U-T-S in my opinion! Stick to your guns!
     
  14. heathersboers

    heathersboers New Member

    629
    Sep 5, 2008
    Wilson N.C.
    OK_ I called them and told them I really want to resolve this.I said "what do you want me to do?"I will re-breed her to your buck next time, and give you a doeling to resolve this- I wasn't mean about anything and they told me to "not worry about it" That "we'll get even with you in the long run". " Just keep the **** doe" and her *******kids"-thy didn't want to wait that long for a kid and wanted the $200. I told them I wasn't trying to be hard to get along with, but she wasn't bred, and i didn't feel obligated to pay that much for a kid that wasn't there to start with. i'm not a hard person to get along with, and I thought that these people were friends of ours. If I were in the situation they are in, I would take the doeling-even bred to a different buck-they could sell her and get their money, they didn't want to hear it. i feel rotton now :(
     
  15. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    Don't feel bad. If they're going to be nasty about the whole thing its not your fault. They shouldn't have sold her as bred if they weren't absolutely certain she had taken. If it was in a production sale situation they would have been in the wrong. Selling as exposed is another matter. You already have the papers so they can't force you to pay what they want now. $300 is a fair price for an open percentage doe. I wouldn't pay $500 for an open percentage without some outstanding bloodlines and a show record.
     
  16. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    They're being unreasonable and are just wanting the money to make them feel better about the entire thing. I WOULD NOT pay $200 extra $$$ or even breed her on the next breeding to their buck.

    You basically paid $300 for a bred doe with doe kid back. The doe is not bred. That is their fault. If they're going to be po'd about the whole thing then maybe you should just take your losses and walk away. $300 for a registered doe...no papers.

    $200 for a doe kid that might not have even been born or turned out terrible...ya right,, like you should pay that! I would offer $100 OR a doe kid from YOUR breeding. Take it or leave it! If she weren't bred I would just send her right back.

    They're being hard to work with and it's not your fault...don't feel rotten :hug: Hang in there.