Help! Kid not nursing

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by PznIvyFarm, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. PznIvyFarm

    PznIvyFarm New Member

    939
    Jul 25, 2010
    I will give an entire birth update later. (and it's exciting :leap: )

    For now, one of the babies is not nursing. She seems to want to, I put the teat in her mouth, but she won't suck even when i tickle near her tail. I fed her some of the colostrum from Bailey but she won't suck on that nipple either. I know I read something about this but can't find it now. I gave her a squirt of nutridrench and am off to try some more colostrum. Please help, I don't want to lose any more babies.
     
  2. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts

  3. PznIvyFarm

    PznIvyFarm New Member

    939
    Jul 25, 2010
    Can i get it at TSC?

    I thought giving the does Vit E/Selenium 4 weeks prior and then again 2 weeks prior should take care of the selenium deficiency?
     
  4. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    How old is the baby? Were you there when it was born? Maye it did nurse already and you just missed it?
    Now I get the teat in the mouth and squeeze a little milk in their mouth.

    I have never heard of BoSe for nursing. :shrug:
     
  5. PznIvyFarm

    PznIvyFarm New Member

    939
    Jul 25, 2010
    This was the first one. I got outside at 4:30 and two were already there - one by her head (this one) so i'm guessing she was first, and she was partly cleaned, the other one was still a mess so he was likely just delivered. She wasn't up so she hadn't nursed. She was definitely interested, and latched on VERY briefly when I held her up - like 15 seconds. She was shivering, so i set up a heat lamp and stuck the first two underneath b/c they were both cold. (I'm so spoiling my birth story) The next two (yes she had FOUR babies) were larger, and popped up almost immediately, and started nursing. The other little one was up a bit later and nursing, she is the only one that was slow to get up and by that time she was less interested in sucking.

    I found another post that said if you don't have BOSE you can give them a vit E capsule. I did that. She is semi-interested, she opens her mouth (away from the teat) butts the udder with her head, but is not good at searching and gives up easily. I've gotten the teat in her mouth a few times, and tickled her tail but it is not stimulating the sucking. She will suck on my finger so she has some suck reflex. She also keeps getting chilled so the heat lamp is still set up for her.
     
  6. PznIvyFarm

    PznIvyFarm New Member

    939
    Jul 25, 2010
    Success! Got her to nurse for at least 5 minutes. She's not full-full, but she is definitely better.

    Now i'm off to get some more bedding. Apparently hay over shavings does NOT work b/c they stir up the top layer of hay and then the babies still get shavings all over them. Plus she was not in the kidding stall, she was in the main pen, b/c Mink looked closer to delivery, and the main pen is not baby safe.


    HOw often should she be nursing? I want to keep encouraging her to make sure she makes it.
     
  7. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Sometimes it take them longe then we would like to see to get the idea. If they don't nurse within 2 hours I get worried but that's unusual.

    If a kid doesn't have a sucking reflex (or looses it after a day) it means they are selenium deficient. Vit E is needed for selenium obsorption. So they need both when deficient.

    The fact that she is and was interested is good - just keep watching her. She may need to be supplemented with a bottle since there are 4.

    The selenium and vit E gel unless given every month isn't always a guarentee that the kids won't come out needing a little supplement especially when there is multiples.

    Congrats on the new additions :)
     
  8. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    BoSe- is a vet Script 1cc per 40lbs

    If the dam is very deficient in selenium and vitamin E then she will use it all herself and the kids wont get any, so kids can still be born deficient.

    Inability to suck is a sign of BoSe deficiency.

    You can give Vitamin E, but it is only Vitamin E, which helps absorb selenium, but does not have selenium in it itself.


    You say you gave the dam vitaminE/Selenium before kidding... don't you have anymore? WHat did you give? A gel or shot?
     
  9. PznIvyFarm

    PznIvyFarm New Member

    939
    Jul 25, 2010
    I have the gel. Should i just give it to all the kids?
     
  10. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    You can if they are showing signs of deficiency.
     
  11. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I agree with Stacey and RunAround... :thumb:

    Glad the baby nursed... congrats... :hi5:
     
  12. PznIvyFarm

    PznIvyFarm New Member

    939
    Jul 25, 2010
    She has been listless all day. If i hold her on the teat, completely supporting her body, and have someone else tickle near her tail, she will nurse - barely. If I don't have an extra person and try to stimulate near her tail myself, she drops the teat. If I keep her on the teat, she just holds it in her mouth. I am totally baffled. Chara has stepped on her twice today b/c she doesn't get out of the way like the others. As they get more vigorous, she gets less so. Even the other tiny one is pushing his way in for his share. Chara is very attentive to the others, nudging them and licking them to get up to nurse, cleaning them, carefully stepping around them. I noticed she was attentive to this little girl originally, and became less so over the course of the day . Now she won't even lick her if i put her right in front of her. I fear if i leave her with Chara overnight, even if i'm checking, she won't make it. I tried feeding her Chara's milk with a syringe about 90 minutes ago, thinking maybe she would perk up, and she tries, but it's just not working. I don't think Chara is being a bad mother, i think she is sensing something is wrong.

    I also wonder, i noticed that she has an undershot jaw - could this be inhibiting her nursing ability?

    After Chara started ignoring her (actually turning away from her and curling her lip when i put the baby in front of her a little while ago) I brought her in and gave her some of Chara's milk in a bottle. She doesn't really suck, but the nipple has a slow drip and it works out.

    What should I do? Is there any possibility of bringing her in for a few days to strengthen her and then put her back with Chara, or is she a bottle-fed baby if i start this process (keeping in mind, I honestly think she will not make it if i leave her with her mom overnight - she is just that weak compared to the others)
     
  13. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Did you give her selenium? This will stimulate her sucking reflex. Also if she doesnt get enough to eat her body will slow down and want to sleep all day so that it conserves energy. I would tube her 2 ounces to give her a head start. I did this with a kid Atlantis that was the runt of 3 and she did awesome after that.

    yes you can pull her to bottle feed and then return her to mom if mom will take her back (be sure to use mom's milk though)
     
  14. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Do you have any nutradrench for goats? It is packed with vitamins and stimulates appetite..... You can get it at tractor supply..
    How was the weather temp there.... when she was born and have you taken the kids temp?

    I had a baby ....that was so weak... it couldn't stand up on it's own...gave a Bo-se Shot.... I just held her up to the teat...and she sucked.... I had to go out every couple of hours...for almost a weeks time... before I found this baby.... up and trying to nurse on her own..... I gave the nutra drench daily and alot of my time to save her.... I kept her with her momma....while doing this .....so she wouldn't reject her.... Also.. if you have any vit B complex... that also helps stimulate appetite.... if you don't have nutra drench..... Feel her tummy ....make sure.... it is full and not empty....also make sure...that milk is coming out of the teat and the other kids..... didn't get it before her.....if so ...you will have to supplement her .....
    When they take a couple of sucks and drop the teat....sometimes means..... she may be full..... check her tummy..... she may be feeding..... when you aren't looking...

    Sometimes.... the most careful moms..... do step on their babies...by mistake....

    if you bring the the kid in....it is a good idea..... to take the kid out ...every couple of hours or so..............so the momma won't disown her.....

    At this point... I don't think ....Bo-se would hurt... giving it to her....make sure... she has the vit E with it ....it helps absorb the selenium in the bo-se shot....

    Dab some of momma's milk... on the kids nose/face...or wherever you want momma to lick the baby....keep trying to get mom to do the licking.... that is bonding.... then after...wipe the milk off with a clean damp rag....
    Or better yet.... if you still have the placenta....rub it on the baby...to try to get moms scent on her.....she may start to lick the baby....

    No ....the only thing ...that may interfere in sucking ....is a cleft pallet....

    Also if the baby isn't getting enough at all... then tube feeding... may have to be done..... don't give up....some babies take a little more time.... but there a few that there may be something wrong internally... that we can't see and only momma knows.........I will pray... that the baby makes it..... :pray: :hug:
     
  15. PznIvyFarm

    PznIvyFarm New Member

    939
    Jul 25, 2010
    She still has a poor sucking reflex. I kept her in last night (not that i didn't keep going out to the barn every two hours anyway to check on Mink ;-)

    I have been giving her Chara's milk, although Chara is not as easy to milk as Bailey (see i have a week's worth of experience and i'm already the expert on who is easy to milk and who isn't :wink: She stands still, she has lots of milk, it just doesn't come out as easily.

    I brought Aurora (we named her already) out to mommy this morning, and left her in a puppy pile with the boys. She tried to nurse again, she bangs the udder with her head, but won't latch on. Chara will lick her face but not her behind (and she is VERY attentive to the boys) so that is why i decided to leave her with them for a bit to get her to smell more like them, plus she is a little less wobbly on her feet now.

    I gave her another dose of Vit E/Selenium, and Chara licked the rest off her face, i dabbed some near her tail, and still no go (I am concerned if Chara is not encouraging her to nurse that she won't) Since everyone seemed content to sleep, i decided to get a break myself. How often should i keep using it - once a day, twice a day?

    How often should I feed her (or encourage her to nurse off Chara)? I have seen 'every 2 hours' , 'every 4 hours', 'when she acts hungry' I did every 2 last night, i was hoping it was 4, but Chara pokes the babies awake every time i was out to check on Mink, so it seems like she wants them on the 2 hour schedule.

    I was going to wait until she was hungrier and try getting her to nurse again off Chara. I had just fed her about an hour ago, so maybe she wasn't hungry enough to nurse again.
     
  16. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    when the are little sometimes its more like 3 hours othertimes they are hungry at 2

    just do what works for you and the kid.

    how much were you feeding her?

    dont keep using the selenium gel - dont want to over do it. How much did you give her already?
     
  17. PznIvyFarm

    PznIvyFarm New Member

    939
    Jul 25, 2010
    I've given her two doses (2 ml each) although she spit out about half of dose #2 this morning.

    She's been drinking about 2-3 Tablespoons of milk at a time before she starts holding it in her mouth and dribbling it out the side. Her stomach is fullish but not hard and round (like i remember when the kittens would nurse to fullness) Then again none of the babies have done that that I am aware of - they all have something in their tummies but it isn't hard.

    She's still out with Chara and her siblings. My daughter said Chara was still licking the rest and not her, but since she isn't hurting her, I'm not going to worry about it.

    eta: I just checked, and she is trying to nurse, but still cannot grab the teat. She tries for a bit and gives up. She is walking around alot better. I gave her some milk from the bottle and left her resting with her brothers.
     
  18. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Don't give anymore VitE/selinium.....she has had enough.... 1 time was sufficient..... as giving to much ...can overdose her and create other issues... :(
    With the Dabbing...you can do the once or twice....it is just trying to get momma to bond....with her....

    Depending on how full her tummy is ....if it is empty like feeling I would go the every 2 hours......if she has a good feeling tummy I'd go the 4 hours..... If you can get the nutradrench that will help stimulate her appetite.....

    How does her tummy feel?
     
  19. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    if she was mine I would tube her but thats just me -- I get worried and figure if they get a good full tummy for a couple hours it gives them the strength they need to work at finding that teat and sucking on their own.
     
  20. PznIvyFarm

    PznIvyFarm New Member

    939
    Jul 25, 2010
    I've never tubed a goat before - if she was totally unable to swallow, i would, figuring i had nothing to lose, but in this case I am reluctant to do that.

    Her tummy is as full as the others - no one is hard, but everyone has a full tummy, so I am going by the others' as my guide. Chara has plenty of milk, and is encouraging them to nurse frequently, plus they are all active, so I am thinking they have enough.

    I will try the nutradrench again later - i forgot about it earlier, i had to take a nap b/c I'm not getting enough sleep - it's been awhile since I had to do the 'every two hour' feeding schedule, (or goat checks) and when i did that with my kids, i took naps during the day :laugh:

    My newest issue - i have been wiping her butt (like Chara should be) and a few minutes ago she was pooping as i put her down, i wiped her butt and there was a small bit of blood (or im guessing blood b/c it was reddish) This must be the first time it appeared. What could this be, and what should i do about it?