Help-- Lump on Face

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by PACE, Aug 18, 2008.

  1. PACE

    PACE New Member

    404
    Oct 8, 2007
    Mass
    I am worried about Melino. Yesterday when I went down to feed the goats, I noticed a small bump on the bottom of his jaw. I studied it, felt it, etc. It was solid and didn't seem to cause him any pain. I thought maybe he got stung or something. Then I go down today and the lump has more than doubled in size! It is quite solid feeling, and it still does not bother him when I touch it. It is now the size that I can cup my hand around it and it about fits in my palm (though I have pretty small hands). The things I have considered are: bug bite/sting, splinter, he got knocked by one of the other goats really hard in the face, bottle jaw (though I know almost nothing about it) or some tooth problem (but since it came up so quickly I don't really think it is that). He was wormed 1.5 months ago with Ivermectin horse paste wormer... I looked but cannot see any little puncture or anything, but I know it could be too small to see, especially through the hair. He eats and drinks fine. So what does everyone think? Can I give him anything to help? I don't want to take him to the vet, but certainly will if I can't get it cleared up or if it gets much worse. I have never experienced anything like this before, so any advice is greatly appreciated!

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    Here's the other side of his face. It is slightly puffy, but not at all like the other side

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    A front view to compare each side

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  2. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Have you tested for CL?

    Take a 18 g needle and syringe and see if you can get anything out of it. If it is clear fluid it is salivary gland - if it has any color or thickness - seperate and send in blood and some of the "fluid" or substance.

    If I had to guess it is a salivary gland that is blocked due to location.

    Is he eating drinking? Any temperature.

    Good - luck - I won't be back on till tommorrow - but I will check on you as soon as I get on in the morning.

    Good Luck!
     

  3. Ivy

    Ivy New Member

    112
    Aug 9, 2008
    Midwest
    I would worm him now!
    Is there any chance of liver flukes? Have a lot of rain this year?
    If so use Ivermectin plus injectable, orally.
    Worms, liver flukes, both can cause bottlejaw.


    Get red cell into him now too and Bcomplex injections.

    It sure looks like classic bottlejaw and time is so important to save the goat.

    Are his eyelids pale? His gums pale?
    If so that red cell is needed as soon as humanly possible.
     
  4. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    I don't have any experience with bottle jaw, but wouldn't the swelling be soft since it is supposed to be edema?
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    ok so that is not in the area for CL nor does it exhibit CL characteristics (growing so fast)

    THat looks like bottle jaw to me. I would check his eye lids, are they white? if so he needs a good worming and iron (either an injectable kind or Red Cell).
     
  6. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    bee sting? I had a dog that got stung by a wasp or bee and just completely swelled up...it looked exactly like your guy there! Maybe bottle jaw?? :shrug:
     
  7. PACE

    PACE New Member

    404
    Oct 8, 2007
    Mass
    His eyelids are pink, gums look fine too. No temp, he is eating without problems, so it leads me to believe it is not happening from inside the mouth (like a tooth problem). How quickly can bottle jaw occur? This started yesterday. It has been fairly wet and rainy lately.

    I am hoping it is a sliver or something... he does like to rub his head on fence posts, etc.
     
  8. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    hmm well if his eyes are pink then it is not bottle jaw.

    :scratch:

    It is the time of year for bees.....that is a good possibility. You could give him some benadryl -- that worked good for my kids with bee stings
     
  9. alyssa_romine

    alyssa_romine Breaking Dawn Ranch

    Oct 4, 2007
    arkansas
    dont goats have salivary glands there, maybe a bad tooth, but with a bad tooth he may not eat so I would say maybe a sting or a salivary gland that is swollen.???? Just throwing out some ideas.....keep us posted.
     
  10. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    He could have gotten a hay splinter inside his mouth...that could explain why you are not seeing anything on the outside...it would fester over time and the swelling you see now could be because of the irritation when eating and chewing...try the Benadryl though, it can't hurt and if it goes down you know it was a bug bite.
     
  11. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    I just had a 4Her with a wether like that. After the fair I went over to her place and i cleaned the area really well and I took a scalpel and I sliced it open. I got some very nasty thick stuff out of it. As we looked in it (nasty) we found a sticker. I have had to do that to two different goats over the years.
    I would bet that is all that it is.
     
  12. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Stacey, you are correct that it is not a typical place for CL, however I have seen an abcess from CL come up overnight as a nodule about as big around as a quarter and within 48 hours be the size of a golfball. Sometimes they do come very fast. It was hard and the fluid was colored but the consistency of water. It wasn't for 2-3 weeks till it started "cheesing" up.

    I would definately tap it, imo. I had one doe that had a lump in the smae spot and it was a salivary gland. they fluid would be clear and a little "thicker" then water.

    I hope that you are able to figure out what it is, treat it, and your baby is ok! :hug:
     
  13. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    well see you learn something new every day -- I didnt know that.
     
  14. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    How is Melino doing?
     
  15. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    It looks EXACTLY like jujus bump that she had about six weeks ago, sadly it was in the right spot for CL, and i was terrified. I would give him a week before you go slicing into it, Jujus disapeared as fast as it apeared. It just was gone one day. Its in the wrong place for bottle jaw as well, bottle jaw is more under the throat area, and its caused by iodine deficiancy.
    Jujus apeared overnight i shaved it to see if i could find the entrance from a stinger or thorn or anything, nothing. she acted totally normal didnt act like it hurt or anything. Of course i ran it for CL and nothing. The abcess never came to a head, it just disapeared.
    here is jujus
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  16. PACE

    PACE New Member

    404
    Oct 8, 2007
    Mass
    Thanks everyone so much for all the help :hug: I'm sorry I've been away so long without an update, but life has been busy and I've had no computer time.... Melino is still about the same. I think the swelling has gone down, leaving just the lump. It is still quite hard and does not seem to bother him what so ever. I am hesitant to cut into him or poke him with a needle as I never have had to before. If it gets worse or I notice any discomfort or it just hangs around too long I'll take him to the vet, but my vet isn't anything spectacular, so I would prefer to wait and see how he does. I am going to worm all my goats soon, just as a precaution, though I don't really think it's bottle jaw. Gums, etc. are still nice and pink.

    sparks879, you're right it looks similar. I hope Melino's goes away so nicely. How long did Juju have her lump before it disappeared?

    I am now thinking it was a spider bite. We have "wolf spiders" out this time of year, and one has been living in the water bucket for a few days prior to the lump (until I finally got the courage to evict it) I wonder if Melino stuck his face in to get a drink and the spider got him...

    Once again, I really appreciate all the support! I'll keep everyone updated!
     
  17. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    a spider bite might do that? not sure. hopefully it goes away here soon for you :pray:
     
  18. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Just give him lots of lovin's and watch that knot....if it is an infection from a splinter it will begin to lose hair and get shiney before it is ready to rupture, if it's not bothering him now, wait til it gets to that point before you lance it, it very well could have been a spider...I got nailed a few weeks ago on my outer thigh/hip and it swelled to the size of a baseball, and itched like crazy...benadryl took care of it for me...if he is uncomfortable though, I would have the vet see him. :hug:
     
  19. PACE

    PACE New Member

    404
    Oct 8, 2007
    Mass
    It has gone down quite a bit. Now there is just a small hard lump.

    Here are some pictures from yesterday afternoon.

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    And a last one I couldn't resist showing. Since my sister took the photos for me, I got to be in one of them haha.

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  20. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    well that is good news. And boy does he love you :love: