Help! Need Tramisol

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by SNKGoats, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. SNKGoats

    SNKGoats New Member

    42
    Aug 30, 2010
    I posted awhile back about the goat with bottlejaw that I lost due to the baberpole worm. Since then I've learned to do my own fecals. I feel like I'm at war with the baberpole worm...and I feel like I am losing...badly. I lost a young buck last week...within a matter of 36 hours he went from perfectly fine to dead. It broke my heart.

    I dosed my goats with COWP (copper oxide wire particles) about a week ago because I heard it did well against the barberpole worm and I couldn't find tramisol/levamisole/prohibit in stock anywhere. I think the COWP did really well for the majority of my 8 goats.

    Now, my little pygmy has serious loose stool. She's not yet severely anemic (according to the eye test chart). I just can't bare the thought of losing her though. I got her for my 9 year old kid brother and he loves her to death.

    SO, here are the questions I need answered.

    1.) I need to know where I can buy tramisol or something else that's effective against the barberpole worm. (everywhere I find is out of stock) Preferably, I'd like to buy a smaller quantity (say, enough to dose 10-15 goats, rather than enough to dose 25-50)

    2.) What can I do, in addition to worming, to fight off anemia? (basically, to help the goat stays alive so the wormer can do it's job) Does Tractor Supply carry anything? (I'd rather run to town and buy it tonight than wait 3-14 days for shipping)

    3.) How long after dosing my goats with COWP and/or Tramisol should I wait to see if the meds are taking effect?


    Thank you so, so much!
    -Kristen
     
  2. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas

  3. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    Have you tried Cydectin?.....I have the cattle pour on, but I give it orally 1ml per 22lbs....it is the biggy of wormers, so you don't want to over use it.....but if you are fighting a bad case of barber poles it would be my choice....also, you need to worm 3x's 10 days apart to break the life cycle......if it were me though I would get a fecal done at the vets and make sure as to what you are dealing with. I also do my own fecals, but if I have a problem I take them to my vets to confirm my findings. Now, this is just my opinion and what works for me.....everyone has to manage their own herd the way they see fit.
     
  4. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    hmm - I didn't know that cydectin did barberpoles ..... ;-)
     
  5. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    Yep....it is what they use in the south where barber poles are a big battle.....it is how I found out about it.
     
  6. mrs. lam

    mrs. lam New Member

    Apr 20, 2010
    Kristen,
    Check your e-mail. :hug:
     
  7. cmjust0

    cmjust0 New Member

    237
    Oct 8, 2009
    COWP is great for killing *adult* barberpole worms.. Like, pretty much 100% success when dosed properly, based on just about everything I've read.

    Problem is, it doesn't seem to be effective against 'dormant' (hypobiotic) barberpoles, and everything I've read indicates that while it's designed to stick in the abomasum and slowly release copper, it doesn't have much *persistant* activity against barberpoles..

    I know...doesn't make sense to me either, but I've seen the data. :(

    Still -- you did good by copper bolusing. If you administered it correctly (prevented them from chewing it, basically), then you almost certainly killed a lot of barberpole worms that day.

    :)

    As a stomach worm -- not an intestinal worm -- barberpoles don't typically cause loose stool. My own experience tells me that a scour is more likely due to:

    1) Dietary upset
    2) Bacterial gut infections
    3) Coccidia
    4) *Intestinal* worms

    Those are the four things I think about first when I see a scour.. Keep that in mind as you move forward -- don't just assume she's having a barberpole problem because she's scouring!

    Prohibit was around again for literally a couple of days, but now it's gone again. :(

    The recommendation for Cydectin is a good one, especially if you haven't used it on your herd yet.. The only thing I'd suggest is to dose orally with the *injectable* cydectin, versus the pour-on. The pour-on contains some nasty, industrial-type chemicals (google 'Aromatic 100') that aren't in the injectable, and the injectable's 2x as potent anyway.. Dosage on the injectable is about 1ml/50lbs of goat, versus 1ml/25lbs for the pour-on.

    Red Cell.. My local TSC carries it, and it's listed on their website.. Pretty sure all TSCs should have it.

    The most common dosage recommendation I've seen is for 15ml/day for one week on standard sized goats, which works out to somewhere around 1ml/10lbs of bodyweight..

    I've personally dosed 30lb kids with 6ml/day for a week with good results. It's stout stuff, but I personally believe it to have a fairly wide margin of safety.

    Can't back that up, though...it's just my belief.

    Sometimes it takes quite a while for a goat to begin 'pinking up' after a successful deworming.. Depends on the goat, as some are more *resilient* than others.

    If you read up on problems with FAMACHA, you'll find that one known problem is that it doesn't allow the producer to distinguish between *resistant* goats and *resilient* goats.. The resistant goat will have good FAMACHA scores because it carries a lower worm burden naturally, whereas the *resilient* goat will have good FAMACHA scores because it's body -- for whatever reason -- is able to produce lots of blood quickly, and therefore can handle a higher worm burden without much trouble.

    I say all that only to point out that how quickly your goat pinks up after treatment has a lot to do with it's level of resilience..

    (fwiw...the problem with having resilient goats is that they become barberpole egg factories...pasture contaminators. As a result, *resilient* goats actually aren't all that desirable. Go figure, right?!)


    SO...tell us more about the scour. Color.. Consistency.. Is it particularly foul? Any blood, mucous, or tissue shreds in it? How is the goat acting otherwise?...grinding teeth or anything like that? Is she running a fever? Depressed? Off feed? You mention she's a "little pygmy"...how old is she? Has she been on any kind of coccidia prevention program? Has she had a dietary change? Have you wormed with anything besides the COWP?

    Something else that's probably worth mentioning is that dehydration can affect FAMACHA testing.. If she's scouring, she may be dehydrated, and her mucous membranes will probably look whiter than they should. Sometimes that looks like OMGWORMS! but it may not be that at all..

    To check for dehydration, pinch her *upper* eyelid between your fingers and see how long it stays tented once you let go.. If it doesn't snap right back, start thinking about hydrating her...electrolyte drenches at least, or even SQ Ringer's solution if she's really bad off..
     
  8. SNKGoats

    SNKGoats New Member

    42
    Aug 30, 2010
    With all the wonderful information you guys gave me, Stormie stood a great chance of beating the worms. With much, much, much heartbreak though, a cyote got in the barn and got to her last week. They're thick around me (I know my neighbors have lost a few animals to them in the past), but I've never had a problem with them. I had her in the barn alone and she was crying a lot...so maybe that caught their attention. Honestly, I really never thought they'd come that close with the dogs around...but I had them inside. I don't know...my boyfriend wants to gather up some buddies and have a cyote hunt. Honestly...I think I just need to get a donkey or a dog to keep with them. :(
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    oh wow I am so sorry :(

    sounds like you do need a protector for your livestock