Help with fecal identification plz

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by Jellybelly, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. Jellybelly

    Jellybelly Active Member

    143
    Jun 12, 2019
    Indiana
    Not sure if I have done this right but I'm trying to learn how to do my own decals. I got a microscope that u can hook my phone up to so I took some pictures. I have no idea how to identify worms tho. Help plz and thank you 20200906_115739.jpeg 20200906_115712.jpeg 20200906_115621.jpeg 20200906_115156_001.jpeg 20200906_115035_001.jpeg 20200906_114938_001.jpeg 20200906_114825.jpeg
     
  2. MadHouse

    MadHouse Well-Known Member

    I am also a beginner at this, but to me there are no worm eggs in your pictures.
    Now that I replied your thread should go to the top again and some more experienced people will hopefully chime in.
    The first time I saw a worm egg it was very clear.
    upload_2020-9-6_18-21-23.png
    In this thread you can find a couple of worm egg charts.
    https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/parasite-egg-identification.215727/
     

  3. Jellybelly

    Jellybelly Active Member

    143
    Jun 12, 2019
    Indiana
    What magnification did you use?
     
  4. MadHouse

    MadHouse Well-Known Member

    10x
     
  5. Jellybelly

    Jellybelly Active Member

    143
    Jun 12, 2019
    Indiana
    This is so confusing
     
  6. Jellybelly

    Jellybelly Active Member

    143
    Jun 12, 2019
    Indiana
    This is so confusing. I've been messing around for the last couple of hrs. Guess I need to do more research 20200907_121237.jpeg 20200907_120941.jpeg
     
    Moers kiko boars likes this.
  7. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    I don't think you are at a high enough magnification.
     
  8. Jellybelly

    Jellybelly Active Member

    143
    Jun 12, 2019
    Indiana
    Better? So confusing 20200907_134453.jpeg
     
    Moers kiko boars likes this.
  9. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
  10. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    I don’t love Molly’s technique. Maybe try McMaster!
     
    Moers kiko boars likes this.
  11. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    Do you know what a bubble.looks like on a slide? To me..your slide doesnt look focused. A bubble will look like a bb. Once I get the bubble focused..the rest of the fecal stays closer in focus.
    Most worms look like little black/ brown balls in a bubble. Hope that helps
     
    R.Williamson and MadHouse like this.
  12. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I agree, do the McMaster method! It doesn't appear you are zoomed in close enough on that last sample. The other samples all looked like fecal matter, didn't notice any worms. Eggs are usually fairly defined. Once you find an egg, generally a lot of the eggs will be about the same size, EXCEPT cocci, which is usually about 1/3rd the size of worm eggs.

    Watch this video, it is the McMaster method.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vELgijcad4&t=12s

    upload_2020-9-7_21-47-19.png








    Cocci egg next to an air bubble which looks like a tire lol
    [​IMG]

    More cocci
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Moers kiko boars and MadHouse like this.
  13. I learned from fiasco farm and when I first started I could send my vet a picture and see if I was right. I also had him do a fecal and I did one and then I could see if I was close enough to their findings. Once you see an egg you will recognize it. Also - I don't think they shed a lot of eggs during cold weather like they do in summer. Do you have a vet that can help you some? Keep trying. If in doubt or if the count was high I will take a fecal to my vet to be safe that I identify and treat properly. I have found that some of the deworming info. I though was what we should do was not always correct. Last year after birthing out 10 girls I did fecals on them all and only wormed a couple.
     
    Moers kiko boars and MadHouse like this.
  14. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I also learned from Fiasco farm years ago, but... had a lousy microscope that was hard to see by and let a friend borrow it and told her she could keep it as I didn't like it. Early last year I bought my Amscope, it's 1 eye, has the camera I can attach and hook up to my computer, and decided to do McMaster so I can do things myself without worrying if egg count is accurate with the fiasco farm method or not.
    With doing McMaster unless you think you are doing a fecal wrong or missing something, you won't need a vet to tell you if you have a worm issue or not. Identification is definitely a struggle, but I've been able to get help with some IDing that are hard to differentiate and found that our biggest summer worm is Ostertagia (Brown stomach worm/bankrupt worm), and saw a rise in cocci when we had some brutally hot, humid weather for a couple of weeks.

    I still recommend the video I posted above, and spend some time googling fecal images and getting an idea what to look for. Some of the charts have #'s and show the size of the eggs for comparison.

    Just be patient, and don't give up or get discouraged! I wish you were closer, I'm no know it all, but I'd gladly sit down and help you learn. Once you get an idea of what to look for it gets easier.
     
    Moers kiko boars and MadHouse like this.
  15. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    Yes..the Mcmaster method is what I use. For me..after I can get that air bubble zoomed in, its easier fir me to see the worms. The sample is in layers..blurry..too high..get closer. Bubble looks like bb or above..then you can go slowly and see more come into view..too deep and you get food matter thats been digested...nothing here..lol.
    Just keep trying...you will find your worms! We all started there too!
     
    HoosierShadow and MadHouse like this.
  16. FMW

    FMW Active Member

    129
    Jun 30, 2020
    midwest
    How many types of parasites fall under the strongyle category? Is barberpole the most common? Is the brown stomach a strongyle?
     
  17. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Agreed! However, anyone here that hasn't used a McMaster slide - there are grids with 6 columns on each side of the slide, so 12 columns total that you will count. To ensure you are focusing on the right area, you can also focus on the McMaster grid lines, and if the line is in focus your at the top of your slide where you need to be in order to see the eggs :)

    They are basically the same class - Trichostrongyle from what I've read. In fact, the livestock diagnosis lab near me that I've done fecals at in the past group them together and call them
    'HOT' Haemonchus (Barberpole), Ostertagia, and Trichostrongylus. There are so many variables in the Trichostrongylus family (I don't know a lot about the differences...). Basically though I do know to tell the difference in many cases you have to hatch the worm to get a proper ID.
    I believe Barberpole is the most common especially in the southern states and humid/damp areas. I know we've had Barberpole here and really thought that's what I was going to deal with this summer, but had people help me ID the egg as Ostertagia. But I've actually seen a few different types of eggs this summer, but the others were more random = not a lot in a sample. However, when I've treated for Ostertagia, it seemed to clean them out of everything else.
    We have a doe that on 7/27 tested extremely high for Ostertagia, I did test a little more than 2 grams of poo, but even if I hadn't she would still have been high.
    I did 3 days of Valbazen on her at 1cc per 10lbs.
    8/7 I checked her fecal and found 0 eggs!
    I'm actually getting ready to do her fecal again, probably next week. She is still nursing a doe kid, but is in good condition. I want to get the kid off of her and prep her for breeding for March kids and get her on a better schedule. I absolutely do not want May kids anymore lol.
     
    MadHouse and Moers kiko boars like this.
  18. FMW

    FMW Active Member

    129
    Jun 30, 2020
    midwest
    Oh wow, this is helpful. Thank you. The ones I have seen on our fecals are usually barberpole, but definitely see some different ones, one of which is the brown stomach worm. You stated it as Ostertagia. I need to figure out how to transfer the images onto the computer to show others here on the goat spot.