Horns Vs. No Horns-Opinions Please!!DECISIONS ADDED PAGE 4!!

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

I like horns. Reasons:

1. the goat's natural cooling system
2. handle bars for me
3. I like the look of it
4. its natural
5. disbudding really freaks me out
6. angoras and boers must have horns to show

With all that said and done, I am going to take my dairy kids to the vet to get them disbudded, mainly just because I want to show and you cant show them with horns.

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

I like my horned goaties!

I never offered disbuds til last spring when it was requested first and I WILL NOT EVER DO IT MYSELF!
I took the 2 doelings to Chiefs breeder and he did it for a small fee, which gets passed along inthe price of the kid.
Now, I will have any registered kid sold dis budded IF it will be a "show" goatie, and it is requested.

Regardless though, having horned goats has not been an issue for me, I know how to "respect" the horns and do fencing accordingly, which BTW took a few years to learn..lol
Aggressive girls get custom made bumper guards if they use their heads on others, my bucks are a different story, the ruttis the only issue I have wih them being aggressive with each other.

Besides...having a polled doe help with the dis bud issue because I have the chance of not needin to make that decision.
Keren posted a very good list of reasons as to why keep them horned.

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

All of our goats are disbudded and I like it that way. . . . I've never had horned goats. I DO NOT disbud myself though. I pay $5 a kid to get it done by a breeder with 30+ years experience. She does a great job.

Be careful about a vet disbudding your kids. We've had some terrible experiences with two different vets. One burned the brains of our doe, Fudgie. She got a TERRIBLE infection. We still think it affects her as she's a little "slow." Another vet disbudded a kid and he got an infection from it. I swear they used cattle irons on our little minis.

Best advice is to get another breeder to do it for you (if you even decide to disbud) and maybe if you feel comfortable enough to do it someday, then you can have them show you how.

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

I prefer horns, pretty much for the same reasons Keren listed. It took me so long to find Opie a friend because all the wethers I found for sale were disbudded. Tavi was one of the two I found with horns.

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

Oh that's terrible, poor baby

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

I think it really depends on the breed and what you are up to. Brandy and I talked a bit earlier about this on chat and this is what I said and I have a few things to add.

Cons of horns:
- My first 4 goats came to me disbudded. The next 3 I brought in - 1 had horns. Within an hour she was stuck in the fence and being beat to shambles by the others.
- Banding later for what ever reason hurts alot more and alot longer then disbudding as a kid
- Surgical dehorning - NO WAY could you pay me to ever do that - whole in the head, sinus's open, anesthesia ....
- Caught my sanaan/boer (when she was horned) scooping up little kids and chucking them through the air backwards when they would try to come get food. One had a mouth full of grain when she did it and he inhaled it. If I would not have been there - I could have lost him.
- can't show (depending on breed)
- most people with small children definately do not want horned goats for danger reasons
- I personally cant sell a goat period that is horned - no one will purchase them

Pros of horns:
- yes, natural
- natures cooling system
- on some goats - look neat

just my 2 cents

Everything born here is disbudded immediately unless full payment is made before it is time!!!

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

i started out with disbudded only (for 4-H), and then realized...i have a whole bunch of weird looking boers...because they dont have horns! so, when i sell my % this spring, i'm only going to raise horned goats. (i dont mind what 4-H says, my goats arent dangerous (they dont go around spearing people for fun, they arent bloodthirsty) and market kids dont have very big horns by market time.)

But for minis....i'd say it depends if your showing, right? you cant show dairy with horns (i might be mistaken)

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

Ditto it keren.

I prefer horns for all those reasons. My Luna who is registered doesn't have horns (disbudded) and her poor little head looks so bare. However, she gets along fine with the others.

I have no problem with disbudded goats, I just prefer natural.

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

Brandi and I have been discussing this issue, and I actually told her to place this topic to get everyones opinions and reasons behind them… I thought it would be interesting to see what everyone else thought and why. This is what I pretty much told her in our emails… Now remember this is my opinion only. Everyone has a different perspective on things, and what works for one is not always a good thing for another.

While I can surely understand why people with “meat breeds” have horned goats and it is totally acceptable, it is the opposite for “dairy breeds”. Dairy goats with horns are registerable but they can not be shown in ADGA with horns. Dairy goats are not to have horns plain and simple. It is mainly a safety issue for people and the goats, because dairy goats are used for milking. That is their main purpose. They are handled much more on a daily basis than a meat goat breed would be.
Because of this…dairy goats with horns are harder to sell, and are valued $$$ less for the simple fact that dairy goats are not allowed to have horns by the registries standards.
Now if you do not plan on breeding for show and or milk qualities then I see nothing wrong with having horned goats in your herd. But what I do not like to see is mixed herds of horned and hornless goats. I do not think it is fair to the goats without the horns to have to live and compete with the ones that do. They are at a big disadvantage. Now this is only my honest opinion. And only because I started out with both and had first hand experience with both types. But I quickly sold the horned goats due to a major injury to a hornless junior. From that day on I was a big believer in disbudding, mainly for safety purposes. I was not going to allow the horned goats to injure another defenseless hornless goat or my children.
Now I am sure there are many that have both “horned and hornless” living merrily together… for me that was not the case.
So yes, I am a big believer in disbudding… since they are a domesticated dairy animal and handled regularly for milking.
While scurs can happen and some breeders do botch the job badly... the key is to do it early. Most do it too late and the horn base becomes wider than the burner being used. When this happens not all living horn cells are burned and the result is scurring. If it is done properly and early enough you will have a good disbudding that won't scur. To be honest, I would rather see horns than bad scurring. That is why I wish more people if they choose to disbud would learn how to do the job more efficiently. As scurring can be dangerous to the goat should it grow back into the skull. So I can understand your dislike of scurs Brandi. Why not ask the breeder you want to buy from what their percentage is of successful disbuddings vs. scurring. (How often do they get scurs on their kids) or tell them right out you want kids that have been disbudded properly as you do not want any type of scurring. While there is no guarantee it may help improve the odds of getting scurs on the kids you buy.

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

I have a total of three hornless (two disbudded, one polled) amongst about 50 horned goats. My boss doe is the old British Alpine doe, who is disbudded. When she got here, she rolled the old boss Angora doe down the hill, did the same with the big boer wether who was next in line, now all she has to do is look at the other goats and they run. She also nips pretty well too.

I milked a boer doe with horns for a long time, every day. The horns didnt interfere with regular handling.

But I do understand your viewpoint.

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

I go with hornless.. for the very reasons Allison listed.

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

Well... I guess I have had experience with horned and hornless and bla bla bla even though I only have 4 goats so I'll give you my opinions too =]

hehe

In my opinion, you should either have horned - or hornless. NOT a mixture. I had all disbudded goats until I got Demi - who had horns. I probably COULD have disbudded her, but her horn buds were almost an inch long and I was nervous...

anyway she got very ornery with those horns. She used to put them under the other goats bellies and then jerk her head up, she'd do the same to me under my chin, etc. - and there are tons of wee kids (human) around here, so it wasnt the safest.

I got her surgically dehorned when she was about 7 months old - it worked, but, I would NEVER EVER subject any of my goats to that again. Basically I would say, if you buy a horned goat, keep it horned... or disbud at birth.

My vet disbuds the kids for me and I must say, he does a great job, I havent had a single problem with scurs. (or brain damage)

Then again, I did have a horned buckling called Samwell and he was always sweet with his horns, and I could lead him around like that - but as i say. not the same with every goat...

so either do... or dont... and dont mix, IMHO

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

I think the important thing is to discipline them - yes when they have horns, they know they have horns and they know how to use them. They need to be taught that using horns on humans is NOT acceptable behaviour. Fiona, the saanen doeling I bought that is actually my brothers, is bad with her horns, using them on people, but I have been able to correct that behaviour.

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

We have only horned goats. I agree that

The process of dehorning is also something that bothers me quiet a bit. I do not think it is something for a young baby to go thru. (I am also not a fan of tail docing and ear cropping) I just dont think that they are necessary and therefore should not be done unless there is an real problem. We decided that if horns made the difference in someone wanting a goat from us and not, we would rather keep them here.

 

Re: Horns Vs. No Horns- Opinions Please!!

Well, I think you mentioned having a really nice set-up with different pastures, pens, etc. Soooo, maybe if you could have the horned mature animals separated from the disbudded ones??

I don't like mixing horned with hornless. Big disadvantage on the hornless, as Tina mentioned.

If you plan on selling quality, registered Nigerian Dwarf goats, then your sales will be much better if you disbud (I would think). In our area, I have never had someone ask me to leave a goat horned. If they did ask, I would probably refuse. Too many goats I have seen get their heads stuck in fencing, hay feeders, etc. Just too risky, for us anyways.

I agree that the disbudding process is VERY disturbing to me. Why I refuse to do it again! If you can ask about that vet. The experience we had was just with two vets. The appt. we had made for Fudgie to be disbudded was actually scheduled with a "good goat vet" (a lot of you may know her, Dr. Lauren Acton, she's a BIG time awesome dairy goat breeder). Anywho, Dr. Acton was called to a farm visit and another vet disbudded Fudgie, and did a terrible job. If Dr. Acton would have done it, I'm sure Fudgie would have been just fine. So, just research the vets in your area. It's a shame you don't have a breeder who could do it. :sigh: