How are you guys handling the Coronavirus chaos?

Discussion in 'The Chatter Box' started by HoosierShadow, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
  2. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    Sending good thoughts and prayers that you are spared. We cancelled T day this year. Usually, we are worried about the old folks,etc. Guess what! We are the old folks! Boy, that hit me like a ton of bricks. DH is in his 70's and I am a decade plus younger. So, his bad lungs and my goats have decided, no family this year.
    That is ok, we are not near anyone but my son and his family, and they are ok with us not attending a dinner. Sure will be a strange holiday season this year.....
     

  3. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  4. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    Vitamin D is beneficial as well.

    I'm looking at the huge number of cases going round right now, knowing they probably haven't detected 1/10th of them and I'm thinking this is perfect timing for the vaccine. Two-thirds of people infected is considered herd immunity. By my reckoning, we're fast approaching 1/3 of the US infected. That means we're about halfway to herd immunity, or will be by Christmas. By next spring we should have reached herd immunity--right in time for them to ship the vaccine. They'll roll it out just as cases are going down anyway, but they'll congratulate themselves for a job well done at getting the virus under control thanks to the new vaccine!

    The ones a vaccine is most likely to benefit are the few countries (and states like Hawaii) where cases never spiked to any significant degree. Without a vaccine, those folks will eventually experience a big wave just like everyone else (although I think in warmer climates it's less likely to be a problem). Anyway, I do think the timing is rather funny.

    I'm still very irritated by the narrative that says, "Just because you've been sick doesn't mean you're immune! You could catch it again!" Rand Paul got in hot water a week or two ago for claiming to be immune. Yet at the very same time the headlines are reading, "New vaccine is 94% effective!" For people to believe both of these things simultaneously makes me weep for the stupidity of humankind. If getting sick leaves you vulnerable, then the vaccine will be ineffective. If the vaccine is effective, then it means natural infection gives people solid, long-lasting antibodies. It's quite possible we'll end up in a gray area somewhere in the middle where infection and the vaccine both give so-so immunity because antibodies don't last, or the virus mutates too much and too quickly to offer long-term protection, but I get tired of the lie that natural infection leaves people vulnerable to reinfection but a man-made vaccine will produce strong, lasting antibodies.
     
  5. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    T cells are what remembers long term as your immunity. Antibodies are only around while you are sick. That is why antibodies are "disappearing" in 3-5 months. But test for antibodies, not T cells so we can keep people scared.

    Totally agree with you Damfino.
     
  6. cristina-sorina

    cristina-sorina Well-Known Member

    584
    May 4, 2018
    Northeast Ohio


    I've been saying this since they started spewing that nonsense! It's not possible to have NO immunity but have an effective vaccine! I'm SO glad to hear others have some common sense as well!!

    Also ksalvagno, I agree!
     
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  7. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    How come only goat people are the ones with common sense?
     
  8. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    Yes..some very deffinate cookies..especially with no education or actual work in medical. Amazing how really careless some people are. Stay safe...and be considerate of others...your lungs may be just fine..but the person next to you might not.
    Stay safe for Thanksgiving. Hopefully the vaccine will help some.
     
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  9. luvmyherd

    luvmyherd Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2011
    NorCal
    I think that just living and working with the land and paying attention to our animals needs gives us an understanding that others don't have.
    I have often been around highly educated people who think I am some sort of genius for simply talking common sense.
    HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!
     
  10. Tanya

    Tanya Well-Known Member

    To all. Happy Thanks Giving. SA doesnt celebrate it but I know it is an important holiday to you. I hope every one is safe and that every one is with a loved one.
     
  11. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    Ugh... I can't help but be rather upset about how all this is going down. I was in Texas in early November helping my grandfather's widow, Dominique, after her hip replacement. She was supposed to have that hip replaced back in April but because of Covid it was postponed. In April Dominique could still walk with a cane, but by the time she finally got the surgery in November she was confined to a wheelchair. This means her recovery has been much more difficult than it would have been had she had this "elective" surgery back when she was supposed to.

    The thing that's making me angry now is that back in April Texas had very few cases of Covid, yet the entire country shut down in a panic because of what was happening in New York and other northeastern states. So although it was totally unnecessary to shut anything down in Texas, they did anyway. This is the downside to living in the age of information where problems occurring thousands of miles away feel like they are impacting every state equally at the same time. People ended up acting according to what was going on "over there" even if it wasn't appropriate for their own situation.

    So Dominique finally got her hip replaced six months too late and now Texas is finally experiencing the Covid surge that they locked down for last spring. Dominique and all of her caretakers and friends came down with Covid a week and a half ago. Some are recovering but Dominique is not. She's in a terrible state to get Covid. Muscle atrophy from the months she spent in a wheelchair have meant that she's been a lot less mobile than a person with a new hip replacement should be so she's quite susceptible to illness, and to pneumonia in particular.

    Dominique went for a routine post-op exam on November 18th and tested positive for Flu A and B but not Covid. Then two days later she had a low blood pressure emergency and had to be rushed to the hospital. That time she also tested positive for Covid, so she's been battling all three viruses at once! That was nearly two weeks ago and she's finally starting to improve a little bit (I think), but the thing that makes me upset about all of this is that if she'd had the surgery back in April when she was supposed to, she would be in a much better position to battle Covid now. Texas had no reason to lock down last spring. Their hospitals and Covid wards were empty. Now that they're actually experiencing a surge that would justify eliminating elective procedures, they can't logistically do it. There's already such a backlog of people whose "elective" surgeries became necessary in the last six months that they won't be able to shut down again without causing a lot of extra deaths and harm.

    Lockdowns were never a panacea that would stop the virus in its tracks and make everything safe if we just suffered through it for a few weeks. No! Lockdowns are an emergency measure to use if and when your specific situation requires it to keep hospitals from overcrowding and avoid depleting resources. Right now many hospitals in Texas are full so postponing certain medical procedures is probably a great idea for a short while, but since the state already played its lockdown card when there was no danger, the logistics of imposing one again have become complicated. People need to play their cards right instead of panicking and responding incorrectly based on what is happening somewhere else in the world.

    To be fair, some hospitals like the one where Dominique got her hip replaced are ONLY for orthopedic procedures so it never made sense to stop them from conducting surgeries at all. It's not like they were using up hospital resources that would otherwise be used for a Covid crisis. Instead they just laid off the doctors and nurses for many months until those non-emergency services could legally be resumed. So the state basically turned Dominique into a "high-risk" Covid patient when normally she would not have been. It's so messed up...
     
  12. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    Oh, and what the heck is up with everyone blaming "pandemic fatigue" for the current virus surge? It's not fatigue. It's colder weather, shorter days, and in my opinion, universal mask-wearing. We've been told over and over that we'll be safe if we all just wear a mask, but people are not wearing masks correctly at all. Probably 3/4 of the people out there are handling their masks constantly. And because they are wearing masks, they feel safe going out in public when they're sick, and they feel safe going to crowded places where they might not feel comfortable gathering if they hadn't been told that their mask will keep them safe. Just the other day I was told that one of our friends is in quarantine because of Covid, but the very next day I saw him waiting in line at the post office with his mask pulled up over his face. I'm sure he believes that as long as he and everyone is masked, it's fine for him to go out while infected. I know he's not the only person who feels that way. The over-emphasis on masks is backfiring by making sick people feel like they won't infect anyone, and making well people feel like they can't be infected.

    More people are wearing masks now than they have been since the pandemic started, but infections are going wild. Just saw a headline this morning: "We need universal mask mandates to stop the virus!" Sorry, but you'll never "stop" the virus. It's here and it's going to stay here. Furthermore, what's the use of mandating something that's already universally practiced everywhere? I've hardly seen a stranger's face in the last two months. Basically ever since school started in September, people have been very, very good at masking up all the time in public. Making it a rule for everyone to do what they're already doing won't help! All this finger-wagging at the very few states that didn't impose a mandate are ridiculous. Private businesses already imposed mask mandates ages ago and that holds a lot more weight than government rules. No one cares what the government says about masks, but we all want to get into Walmart.

    Something I noticed about my mask lately is that it's constantly WET! In summer it was only wet when I was inside buildings but it would dry out as soon as I was in the parking lot. Now it's wet all the time and it never dries out until the next day. I never thought about this before, but it must be because it's cold out now. It only used to stay wet inside air conditioned buildings but would dry out in the hot summer air as soon as I stepped outside so it would be dry by the time I got into the next store. Now that it's cold outside my mask no longer dries between uses. I wonder if perpetually wet masks might be contributing to viral transmission problems.
     
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  13. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    I agree with you totally, Damfino. It is flu season. This is the time when viruses surge anyway. IF a lockdown would actually work, then it should have worked from the spring lockdown. But of course that isn't how viruses work. So here we are.
     
  14. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  15. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    yup. I too agree....this is getting out of hand
     
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  16. luvmyherd

    luvmyherd Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2011
    NorCal
    I am sorry to hear about your grandfather's widow. I too had to postpone my hip replacement last year. Not because of Covid but other family priorities. Luckily I had not gotten that bad and with physical therapy and exercise before and after; I recovered well and quickly. But I did not understand why my post op physical therapy had to be over the phone. The part of the building where I had PT was well away from the rest of the clinics with a separate entrance. I feel there was very little chance of infection at that time.
    My husband needs to see his doctor for a physical and some medication follow up. Needless to say, when he got them on the phone he was told they are *way behind*. Again, his clinic is not part of a hospital and there was really no reason to shut it down at all. A few general precautions and I think most people would have been fine seeing their doctors this past 9 months.
    I understand your frustration.
     
  17. cristina-sorina

    cristina-sorina Well-Known Member

    584
    May 4, 2018
    Northeast Ohio
    I agree with you @Damfino, it's sad, to say the least.

    I work in surgery at a community hospital, we do many, many elective procedures, they're what keeps the hospital financially healthy. We were especially hit hard in March, April and May when Ohio stopped all elective surgeries. They did it at the time to conserve PPE (we do use ALOT of PPE in surgery from Sugical gowns, multiple sterile and non sterile gloves, eye protection etc). Now, however, the PPE situation is just fine, we've caught up to the demand. Now the fear is that COVID patients will take up a large portion of hospital beds, this is a problem if the elective surgical patients need an overnight stay, or they develop an unexpected complication requiring a regular bed or an ICU bed. So far thank God we've been okay on the COVID front, we've had patients requiring hospitalization but not enough to stretch the capacity of the hospital to the maximum.

    Its so sad that we've seen people's cancers have advanced to worse stages, more people have become immobile like Dominique, not to mention people delaying their care despite hospitals and ORs being open. People are cancelling surgery from the sheer terror they've been fed by the news since March. It's hard to even sum up in words the frustration everyone feels the entire situation.
     
  18. Tanya

    Tanya Well-Known Member

    So last night president Ramaphosa had what we call a televised meeting with his South African family. We are back in a bit of a tighter lock down. Christmas and new year midnight celebrations are now cancelled. Only allowed to party till 10 pm so we can all be home by 11 pm.
    Alcohol can only be sold monday to thursday 9 am to 4 pm.
    Masks are compulsory.
    Only 250 people allowed to gather outside and 100 inside. Beaches are closed from today to 7 January 2021.
    Apparently we are now in our second wave. Ugh. Flu is flu. Its gonna clean off the planet and us humans will always defy mother nature.
     
  19. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    Ohio is still having some stupid curfew from 10pm-5am. Everyone is ignoring it. "They" have cried "Wolf" too many times. And, they may fine people, but heck, the jails don't want new people, too afraid of wiping out all the inmates, so pretty much anything but murder is getting probation! (oh, dui gets you jail time, but drugs and OD's do not)

    What a strange time we live in! I'll just keep to my social isolation with my goats!
     
  20. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    I called Dominique yesterday and she sounds much, much stronger this week and her cough is a lot better, although it recently developed into bronchitis so it may hang on for a while. Still, bronchitis is a much, much better development than pneumonia even if it can be more persistent. She's also able to get herself up and about now and is walking more each day. She uses her walker but the wheelchair is gone now (yay!). All of Dominique's caretakers and several of her friends and our other relatives (aunt, uncle, cousins) were down with Covid for a while but they are all doing much better or are recovered. My aunt is the one having the most lingering symptoms I think, but she's also doing better than she was.

    Bad news yesterday though. My husband's Uncle Steve had to be rushed to the hospital in an ambulance yesterday morning. He'd been a little "off" all week before he crashed. It turns out he has Covid, and since he's been battling a bunch of other nasty health problems for the last year or more he's definitely a high risk case. They got him on convalescent plasma today I believe, so that should hopefully help. His wife, Marianne, tested positive but is currently asymptomatic. We were hoping they could dodge the Covid bullet because of their age and Steve's health problems. I know they've been super careful (probably more than most people--Marianne is a retired nurse so she knows how to do everything "right"), but it's hard to completely insulate yourself from any kind of pandemic.

    I was at a game night last night and out of ten ladies there, four of them have had Covid. Hopefully this is a good sign that we're nearing saturation around here and the virus will have to start slowing down as there are fewer people it can infect. I also hope the vaccine is as good as they're saying it is. I don't plan to get it myself. I'd like to see it tried out for a few years first because I'm just not the altruistic "guinea pig" type. However, I hope it proves safe and effective. If the vaccine is effective then it means that natural immunity should also be effective and between both of those ways of obtaining immunity, the human population should be in a much better place next year.