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... I'm curious. When a surgeon wears a mask in a surgery because the room needs to be completely sterile, you are saying that doesn't work? You are saying that the room would still be completely sterile if that surgeon didn't have a mask on? You dont think that they stop bacteria going in or out out?
In this case I think masks can work very well, but the surgeon is trained. All healthcare workers actually take mandatory classes on how to properly use and handle their masks. And then they have to practice day in, day out. And if you've been in a hospital you soon realize that even fully trained professionals aren't always very good at it. There's a reason why ~250,000 people/year die from entirely preventable hospital mistakes, and one of the big ones is hygiene. When done properly mask wearing is very helpful. When done improperly it can actually make things worse than having no mask at all. Most of the "unwashed masses" appear to be doing it improperly--even those who have good intentions!

The only reason they wouldn't work is because you aren't washing your reusable one often. Most people have decent hygiene..
I don't have good mask hygiene. Just call me "Pigpen". :)

And the only way you would get more sick is if you already had something you are breathing in and out that would make you more sick. And by then you should know and quarantine yourself.
The purpose of a mask is to filter stuff out. If it's doing its job, it will have virus particles on the outside. Then you handle it and you get those particles on your hands. And then you get them on your face when you take your mask on and off. And whatever you wiped from the grocery cart onto your hands ends up on your mask when you adjust it or have to scratch your nose. Then you wear those germs around on your face for a nice long time so you can breathe it in for extended periods in a nice moist environment where germs particularly thrive.

And if you are constantly touching it, just wash your hands more often. Or simply ignore the urge to mess with it, the same way you ignore the urge to scratch a bug bite. Soon, you forget about it. I know its hard. My ADHD challenges me every day haha, but lately I've been forgetting I'm even wearing it when I get in the car.
I've been a fidgeter and nail biter for 42 years. Heck, I still pick at my underwear. I should've been a baseball player!

You cant deny the scientific proof that masks work.
No, but I can deny that the scientific studies are based in reality. They're based completely on ideal situations and make the erroneous assumption that everyone is masking correctly when in real life, nothing could be further from the truth. You know how many masks I see wrapped around grocery cart handles on the way to the store?? People take them out, grab a cart with their mask still in their hand, then put it on just before they walk into the store. I have yet to see one scientific study that accounts for practical mask handling rather than the purely theoretical ideal we're supposed to aspire to. They need to start taking into account actual human behavior rather than some ideal that doesn't exist in the real world.
 

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Ok. So lets do this. Here in SA we have 30 000 deaths and a couple hundred active cases and over a million recoveries.
The new approach here is..... wait for it ..... dont stay indoors without proper ventilation. Do not use air conditioners.... open windows and doors.
Try spend 1 third of your day outside... but not in public.
In public wear your masks and sanitize and social distance. Do not go into over crowded areas like clubs, pubs, restuarants and shops.... unless you REALLY have to.

So now is my question. I live ver isolated on a rescue. I have 3 families here that work for the rescue. We have our groceries delivered. I had the virus 2 times. My husband is a fatality. And yet non of those other families got it. We have a clinic visit us 1 a week for safety....
 

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So super interesting thing I saw on the news. So most people will wear a mask even for a few minutes, take it off when they are out of the store or whatever, lay that mask down in their car and put back on at the next stop. BUT what we are not seeing is we are filling all those microscopic holes with our germs, then dander, dust, all that fun stuff floating around in our car is getting on that mask. When we go to the next store what is happening? We are actually pushing all that crap out. If that person is positive they are pushing that crap out out and the mask thing is basically doing Jack. I don’t know a single surgeon that puts on and removes their mask. So just because someone is wearing a mask doesn’t mean they are protecting you. I really wish people understood this and we would put more importance on the 6’ distance. I’m not saying do away with the masks but don’t Count on the fact that just because everyone has a mask on you are safe.
On the vaccine front keith was going to get his vaccine. One of his co workers tested positive so he took that as a sign. He signed up to be on the list, a friend of mine got the first dose and she said she was good. The day before she was due for her second dose her co-worker flat lined and is now in the ICU. She went ahead and got the second dose and 12 hours later she was sick as a dog. Fever and racing heart. By morning she just felt like she stayed up all night. 3 days later she feels fine. Her other co-worker decided to bypass the two vaccines that are out and wait for a third one that is not out yet but is supposed to have less side effects and doesn’t change the cells in your body. She looked into it and sent keith all the info so he took his name off the list and is waiting for the Johnson and Johnson one. I personally am saying nope to them all for now and probably for a long long time lol
 

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Ok. So lets do this. Here in SA we have 30 000 deaths and a couple hundred active cases and over a million recoveries.
The new approach here is..... wait for it ..... dont stay indoors without proper ventilation. Do not use air conditioners.... open windows and doors.
Try spend 1 third of your day outside... but not in public.
In public wear your masks and sanitize and social distance. Do not go into over crowded areas like clubs, pubs, restuarants and shops.... unless you REALLY have to.

So now is my question. I live ver isolated on a rescue. I have 3 families here that work for the rescue. We have our groceries delivered. I had the virus 2 times. My husband is a fatality. And yet non of those other families got it. We have a clinic visit us 1 a week for safety....
@Tanya I'm so sorry to hear about your husband!
It is interesting that you mention fresh air as part of the measures SA is taking. I read about the Spanish flu pandemic that happened during WWI, and apparently, fresh air was something that was widely used to control the spread and to speed recovery. Open air clinics were set up for convalescents.
To my knowledge, no-one in the US is trying this (except me...I HAVE to be outside a lot of the time), but since I believe I read a study that indicates the Covid-19 virus can not survive well in an open air environment, especially sunshine, it seems like a common sense approach to me.
 

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@Caileigh Jane Smith the first time we got sick, we stayed closed up and them my h7sband got worse. The second time I got sick I refused to stay inside. I went outside sat in the sun. Spent time with my rescues and tool the medicine given me. I got better quicker and I did not make any one else sick.
I'm glad you were able to get better so quickly! That vitamin D from the sun shine does all kinds of good things! I always feel happier when I'm outside. So I figured that probably helps me feel better when I'm sick, too. I will go outside unless I'm so sick I can't leave my bed.
 

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Heck, I still pick at my underwear
Im guilty as well (rofl)

People take them out, grab a cart with their mask still in their hand, then put it on just before they walk into the store.
Here, shopping cars are luckily being sanitized

I really wish people understood this and we would put more importance on the 6' distance.
THIS! Yes! I believe mask work very well along with social distancing. but with a proper mask, you shouldn't be able to blow out a candle an inch from your face. Shouldn't even phase the flame.

She went ahead and got the second dose and 12 hours later she was sick as a dog. Fever and racing heart.
I always have horrible reactions to shots. My tetanus shot last year was my worst ever. I got a 105 fever and was throwing up everything i ate. Lasted about 28 hours, and i suddenly snapped out of it and was fine. Its crazy how your body can react.
After this years flu shot, I felt light headed. Very mild reaction for me. gone in about 12 hours. My arm was also sore for 2 ish days, which happens to me every time i get shots. I think I'm realizing my body isn't as strong as i think hahah
i am going to have to find the stats, but from the 1 million people who have gotten at least 1 dose of the vaccine, 21 have had severe reactions, and most were reversed by either Benadryl or an epi-pen.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...vaccine-reported-overall-remain-rare-n1253007

My sister, who just graduated nursing school in December will be starting her first hospital job in February i think. She is going into ER. She should be getting the vaccine soon. I will update yall on how it goes for her :)
 

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A point about surgeons' masks, they are not the same ones that are sold to the public. We are getting junk from China- read the boxes, etc. Or fabric ones that look like fruit of the loom underpants cast offs...... I used to buy all the safety stuff for our company that worked in chemical plants. Those N95 masks and respirators were the real thing. KN95 are not the same...
 

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How can they say a person dies of a certain virus. When they don't know what all the virus is? Its like the flu. .it keeps changing. So why do they think a vaccine will work? There are multiple strains already. Its like Cancer...a 3trillion a year income for pharmaceutical companies.
 

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How can they say a person dies of a certain virus. When they don't know what all the virus is? Its like the flu. .it keeps changing. So why do they think a vaccine will work? There are multiple strains already. Its like Cancer...a 3trillion a year income for pharmaceutical companies.
I wondered this as well, but do we actually have scientific evidence that it is mutating?

I mean, a new flu vaccine get produced every year. Is it like that?
 

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So I'm guessing that you all haven't figured out that once the hospitals were paid bonuses for covid patients they diagnosed every loss as a covid death? Even the CDC estimates the actual death rate as 6% of those reported.
Well, yes and no. The CDC reports that ~6% of reported deaths were purely from Covid with no other underlying or exacerbating conditions. That doesn't mean only 6% of reported deaths are real. It just means that certain health conditions put people at risk of dying from Covid. I definitely think the death count is greatly inflated and many of the people who died of Covid this year would have died anyway from their other conditions and it would have been chalked up to pneumonia, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, flu-like illness, or one of the other big-time killers of people who are elderly and/or have serious health problems. Some "Covid" deaths would even be attributed to car wrecks or alcohol poisoning in any other year. ;)

On the other hand, there are a lot of folks who have died from Covid who would otherwise have been kicking around for quite a few more years as long as their underlying health conditions were being managed.
 

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How can they say a person dies of a certain virus. When they don't know what all the virus is? Its like the flu. .it keeps changing. So why do they think a vaccine will work? There are multiple strains already. Its like Cancer...a 3trillion a year income for pharmaceutical companies.
I'm not sure I understand. They DO know what the virus is. It's been identified for over a year now. Even if it mutates, it's still the same virus. A fruit fly that mutates is still a fruit fly. A vaccine's effectiveness depends on how stable the virus is. Some viruses mutate significantly to the point where vaccines are basically worthless (cold viruses for example). Some are stable enough to get semi-decent vaccines (flu). The Covid virus appears to be a lot more stable than either cold or flu viruses. It apparently mutates more slowly and less dramatically, which makes it a better candidate for vaccination. Hopefully this continues to hold true.
 

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Most people don't actually die from Covid, they die from the damage done by the virus. The death certificates give several lines for cause of death and underlying issues. Usually those who have covid and die do so from respiratory issues. That would be listed at the cause of death. If their kidneys failed also, that would be 2nd and so on. Covid is listed as the underlying cause. I see enough of these, as I am one of the ones who bring the bodies to the morgue and then release them to the funeral homes.

My son, daughter in law and grandson had Covid early on, January 2020, as my DIL is head of the pharmacy in a huge Boston hospital that gets patients from all over the world. She got the first shot and was fine, except for a sore shoulder. She just had her 2nd dose this past week and got so sick from it that they were going to admit her. She is ok now, but said that the vaccine made her way sicker than Covid did.

My state got their first shipment of the vaccine just before Christmas. They vaccinated the healthcare workers, including public safety officers, and my department (Hospital Security). I refuse to take it as there is no proof it actually works and I don't believe it is safe. I will trust my own immune system to keep me healthy. I have been exposed numerous times to cv19 patients in the past 13 months or so and have not gotten so much as a sniffle. A lot of homeless and mental health patients have come here and been positive. The MH patients and drug abusing patients are the ones we seem to mostly go "hands on" with. Masks get ripped off, we get spit on, coughed at, you name it. Out of 59 officers, only 5 have gotten CV19, and most of those were from outside the hospital exposure.

Nope, no shots for me.
 

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From what I have heard here at the hospital, the mutant CV19 viruses are less dangerous that the original.
 
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Yes its a virus..but the mutation values change do to the receptors on the synapses of the cell . It flows through the system attacking randomley. It adhears at varying layers of cell structure
It is confusing to actually identify all the markers required to create a full vaccine to control all the receptor sites.
So in laymans terms...they dont know.what it is. No set pattern. As it mutates it can increase in abilities or decrease due to certain variation in the human resistance. We all differ to degree.
 

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I'm sorry. I must be terribly obtuse because I still don't understand what you're getting at. Are you trying to say that this virus is indistinguishable from other viruses? Or that the virus has no identifiable features? You said yourself a few posts back that there are eight identified strains (actually, it's a lot more by now as there were already eight identified strains before last summer). If no one knows what it is or can identify that someone died from it, then how can they possibly identify varying strains of it? I don't understand what you're trying to get at or what conclusions we're supposed to draw from these apparently contradictory statements.

As for the practical application, do you think vaccines are useless against this virus because it defies identification? Or that natural immunity is useless because our bodies can't keep up with the various mutations? Once again, what are you actually getting at? I'm sorry, but I sometimes find you difficult to understand. :(
 

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reading & verbalizing opinions about this viris are changeing dailey. K? Yes and with 8 identifiable strains it show mutation if that degree in such a short span of time. How many mutarions can a virus go through.in just 1 human? Hundreds.
Vaccine are good against the strain their markers are targeted to. Through antibodies is where we have resistance to the virus. As we adjust the positive abilities of the vacine to kill, retard, dissolve the virus..the virus can re adjust to survive.
So much is going on with the research of this new virus...many ideals and opinions change. Your not obtuse...you arent in medical research. It changes as we learn more if the capabilities of this. So...with actual experience..we can reseach , study, and learn to improve on the vaccine ther have thrown together to apease the population.
 
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